Horatio Hornblower

SaturnWind · Member Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 69

What did you think?

NauticalNymph · Very bored Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 141

Hmm... well... Razz

Of course it is my favorite tv show. =D and... yeah. You know that already.

SaturnWind · Member Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 69

Yep, I sure do...it's one of the things we mostly talk about! lol! Very Happy

SaturnWind · Member Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 69

For your sake I hope they have it! Pellew is so cool! And Archie, and Mr. Bush, and Clive, and...and...!

Jailcrow_of_Mandos · Still very bored Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 313

Jeehosaphat o.o How'd I miss this thread- You dirty cheats didn't tell me about it!? Hell, I loved it enough to help fill up the non-existing HH fan art section XD and to write a praise editorial for A&E in my school newsaper- and manage to sneak a huge picture of Mister Bush in my language feature, too >.>

Oh, and don't get me started on the cry of triumph that rang out when Bush took Archie's place in the books-- as sad as it was.. Poor Archie...I'm just jealous because I know he's way cooler than Bush. *sigh* But I still like Bush more XD

As for Pellew! "Pull yourself tagetha, man!" I lvoe hwo he says it, haha! He's such a sarcastic little-- well, he's just so great through the entire series! I must say that I terribly miss Oldroyd, though =( he was such a good character. I also miss...Edrington, Andre....Archie >.>....and BUNTING! No, I'm just kidding. But that is one of the best quotes from HH, lol "I WILL NOT LIIIIIIVE WITH INJUSTIIIICE!"

Speaking of, I love Nymph's signature. It is only surpassed in coolness by my own. No one is more awesome than Feanor (except Fingolfin) because he slammed the door of his hosue in the face of a dark god. Totally off topic, though >.> really, I just think it's amazing how much I've learned about history and the sea in general just from watching these movies-- though Nymph and I have caught a few mistakes...like the thing about dueling being against the Articles of War... But she's reading the books and seeing where they strayed and such ^.^ How goes it, Nymph?

NauticalNymph · Very bored Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 141

He actually didn't break any laws in the fight with Simpson. That was all right-- it just goes against 22 if Horatio were to challenge a superior officer- though I am not sure if that means a senior officer as well... because technically, Simpson was senior to him... but... still the same rank, you know?

In any case, the books are pretty good.. I'm on the fourth one now. I like it. But... William has gone away. So I am left without any comfort. Sad

As for Forester's accuracy, I am no person to judge- but everything seems great to me. ^_^

Jailcrow_of_Mandos · Still very bored Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 313

Oh, I meant A&E, lol! I am by NO means in a position to question the great Forester o.o >.>

As for Bush, that's really sad that he's all alone now. maybe that's why it's takign A&E so logn to make the next one. if they ahve to switch between characters, then it'll be different from every other movie so far- a totally different fele alotogetehr if there's a scene with Bush and w/o HH difficult to orchestrate, I imagine...

NauticalNymph · Very bored Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 141

If it doesn't involve Horatio, I am doubting they would even take time to show the state of Bush. The books don't. William is just another person you meet and then seperate from- and it leaves you with a sad "oh" longing feeling. Like a hole. =/

Except... not. Since we know that Forester brings him back in the later novels to serve minor roles at the very least. I suppose that would be a reason I like the Master and Commander books so far too-- Barrett and Killick are constants- you see them in every novel so far-- and I think O'brian even makes mention of Thomas too. You don't feel like you've lost the characters so quickly, even though the new crew mates are sort of a bummer.

I can see why A&E chose Styles and Matthews (I miss Oldroyd!) to stay along with Horatio. It gives the audience a false sense of comfort, something like a safety blanket. However, I think that Mister Bush is probably there to stay in the series, considering that he is next closest to Horatio, and A&E will probably still want him to maintain some friendly relation... though in the books, Horatio is rather brutal towards his first lieutenant. The little s**t... =/

A&E saw plots where there were none... Taking Hammond's name, figuring it was Irish- making him have a nephew that would be aboard Horatio's ship... turning Hammond into a traitor... Having some weird cox'n named Wolfe who is actually the leader of the Irish rebellion... Erm- just to let you know, none of that happened. But it was fun, right? ^_^

I'll wait to write more... I'd like someone else to jump in =D

Jailcrow_of_Mandos · Still very bored Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 313

Yes, yes it was fun-- and poor Andre- not only does he hardly get mentioned but-- so so sad what happened to him =( yeah, I figure maybe that's what's taking so long, then. They having to adapt the book the where they can keep Bush on board-- editing Styles and Matthews (maybe Oldroyd, too!) in as our safety blanket ^.^

SaturnWind · Member Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 69

I haven't been here for sometime! So many new posts but I can't expect anything less from HH lovers. (I don't mean Horatio himself of course! WTF?

) Sorry I meant to tell you Jailcrow, but then I figured you would just find it. Wink

Brad, er my dad when he saw the first movie, thought it was just so cool that they could duel people, if insulted. Can you still do that? If so how cool! Just maybe farther apart! Five steps isn't too much! XD I mean even if you were a bad shot, you had a really good chance of hitting him (or her). It was somewhat, like someone just saying shoot me! LOL!

I agree with you Jailcrow I too have learned more on the History of the HMS ships and other things. Plus it has made me see the Navy in a better light, which is a good thing. (I'm really starting to hate pirates)

So Nymph, does Clive come back after the Retribution? Very Happy

NauticalNymph · Very bored Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 141

eh--Clive was in [u]Hornblower and the [i]Hotspur[/i][/u] for a brief moment-- he was present at Horatio's wedding with a Mrs. Clive... odd? =/

And he makes an appearance in [u]Hornblower During the Crisis[/u]- but not in that actual story. After the main book, there are two short stories about Horatio's life-- one when he is young and back on the [i]Renown[/i], and another when he is the Admiral of the Fleet (an adorable little tale-btw).

In the short story about the [i]Renown[/i], they are going to hang an Irishman named Barry McCool. Clive's response:

[i]"There'll be a pretty little ceremony tomorrow morning," said Clive, the surgeon. He put his hands to his neck in a gesture which Hornblower thought hideous. [/i]

I am not sure how A&E plans to pull off this short novel- though they have a lot to make up for themselves towards the end, because Forester died and left the tale unfinished- however, he did leave behind notes on how the story should end, and it would easily be adapted into a video. I suppose they have to take a long time on dialogue and what such...

In any case, [u]Horblower and the Crisis[/u] was excellent, even if it was not completed. Horatio becomes a spy. Wink

Except... we don't get to see him do it, since Forester died and all... but the author's notes say he does.

Styles and Matthews won't be hard to keep in the movies- they are minor roles that hardly change anything. Bush, on the other hand, will be extremely difficult. I think this might end up being another one of those "Horatio character growth" episodes, where he has to give up his friends and take on an even greater responsibility.

Oh, I must also retract my statement regarding Wolfe. He does exist, only in a very minor part. He was an Irish martyr, and was scheduled to be hanged by the English... however "Wolfe Tone had cut his own throat the night before he was due to be hanged, and had died in agony a week later." That is all they said about him. Hammond isn't evil... yet... . . . .

And, I am pretty sure that there is a law against duelling- either somewhere in the Constitution, or most definately in the state constitutions...

Jailcrow_of_Mandos · Still very bored Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 313

Yeah, dueling is illegal in America, but I don't know if you can do it anywhere else-- or maybe it was.....I know, at elast, that in New England there's a law saying that you can't attack someone verbally for refusing to partake in a duel. I thought that was funny. Oh, and I know it started to lose it's popualrity when either it was a presidnet kileld someone in a duel, or someone killed a president >.> I don't remember now, but it had something to do with jefferson, it hink. Maybe I'm just too tired to think straight. Whatever the case, Thomas Jefferson is the coolest president ever. Razz

But yes- that's not about HH- I think they should finish up the novels-- finish the ntoes with a movie-- for those poor fans that never really got to experience it. I think he would have liked that =) But with Horatio having a kid now- it seems liek they're gettign to draw the story out much mroe than it wa sintended to be :/ Is it really that involved in horatio's family life in the books, or mroe concerned with hsi time at sea?

BTW, it would suck to cut your throat and take a whoel week to die :/

SaturnWind · Member Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 69

Mmmmrrss. Clliiiveee?! *faints* But that's in the books not the movies right?! I still can think of him right!?!?

NauticalNymph · Very bored Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 141

WARNING: CONTAINS HH SPOILERS LATER IN THE MESSAGE

I believe it was Aaron Burr and Alexander Hamilton that held that famous duel (1804- when it was still socially acceptable, though frowned upon)-- but such things were allowed until the late 1800s, I think. In the end, Burr's political career was ruined and Hamilton was dead... . . . .

Jefferson was the president at that time, but he didn't have anything to do with the actual duel. :)

Enough of the history lesson and back to HH!

Salina, you can think of Clive as much as you want-- It might not have even been Doctor Clive the book was talking about... I really don't know. Here is all that the book says:

[i]"We can bear each other company, Mrs. Mason," said the parson's wife. "Mr. Clive can follow us."

"You are very kind, Mrs. Clive," said Mre. Mason, although there was nothing in her town to indicate she meant what she said.[/i]

I don't remember Forester mentioning anything about Clive having anything to do with the clergy-- or anything to do with religion. Not that any of the characters ever mention their beliefs- but I don't think, with what we've seen of Clive, that he is a member of the Church, able to conduct a marriage. Maybe he was just there for the wine. lol. Laughing

In any case, it could just be Forester recycling names. You never know.

Warning: Spoilers are about to make their way into the convo.....

Horatio has a son-- and he is conveniently away during Maria's pregnancy. When he returns home there is a 'little Horatio' waiting for him. Unfortunately, he stays for like a day, and then decides he is ready to go back out to sea. As for Hornblower being connected with his family, the books do add a certain stress to it. I have an inkling that Maria goes with Horatio in the next novel (she's pregnant again). And whenever she's not there, Horry is thinking about her and his son-- whether he is having fond memories, or just troubled with the letters he has to write her every week... I can't really say. It varies. =P

As for another little tidbit that I found extremely odd, was that in one of the last pieces of writing Forester did for Horatio, when he was Admiral of the Fleet, he has a wife named Barbara... I wonder where Maria went?

Jailcrow_of_Mandos · Still very bored Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 313

Horatio is so... <_< grr- I want to smack him so much...In any case, the only answer for the whole two-wife thing is this--- Horatio is always tan, when the other characters are white as sheets...all of them...He's form the middle-east! No, I kid- but, the homonym of "Horey" should suffice.

Ah, Alexander hamilton- yes, I rememebr now. Silly bloke he was...not that I knew him- but yeah, we learned all about that last year. Thanks for the refreshment, Nymph ^.^

And oh...yeah...Mariah...well...I was thinking of reading the books for Bush, but...if he's gone now..and mariah is there instead...I think I'll just die instead...

NauticalNymph · Very bored Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 141

It is my personal hunch that Maria dies while giving birth to her next child. But.. I could be wrong. Only time will tell...

SaturnWind · Member Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 69

(evil grin :wub: )

This is still sort of confusing. :wacko: I really need to start reading the books. Is there like 20 books like master and commander or less? I'm going to go to the book store tomorrow and buy the first three to start. Need to catch up...

NauticalNymph · Very bored Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 141

Twenty in the M&C series, 11 in the HH. =) This has really turned into a book and movie discussion, lol.

Oh well. I'm writing a poem right now-- or trying to... meh- I really don't like poetry- but this idea has been plaguing my mind forever- it woke me up this morning and now I have this unfinished rough draft. Oh well...

Its got buckle shoes in it! Laughing

Jailcrow_of_Mandos · Still very bored Joined: 26 Apr 2004 Posts: 313

*drools over the buckle shoes, strokes the buckle shoes* Well, your poem has my vote ^.^ for..um...that thing with that rpize >.>?

Yes, well, I geuss taht'd eb the only way to explain him gettign remarried- unless he just elft Mariah because he's such a tramp and never loved ehr anyways :/ maybe you should get that book that goes along with the series like that other board was talking about ^.^

BTW, that answer for Captain Foster's question was so awesome o.o But you'd think that if PotC people knew about club hauling they would have gotten some other things right, eh? Damn, I hate PotC =( except for James Norrington- what a sweety :wub:

But yes, HH. If they do continue with the movies-- we've been learning more about Styles and Matthews in every episode-- so what do we learn next?? I don't think either of them could really be married because they stick together and travel so much, but what other tidbits could we learn about them o.o?

NauticalNymph · Very bored Joined: 13 Jun 2004 Posts: 141

yes, i have finished the poem and it's in my profile... =) i'm rather happy with the outcome. ^_^

I'm not sure if it really neccessary to say anything else about Styles and Matthews... they'd probably just add the comic relief- you know? =)

As for the Hornblower Companion- i just might have to indulge myself and get it. It would be very helpful- and Forester wrote it himself. ^_^ It has all sorts of goodies in it- like maps of routes Horatio took and stuff... as well as a section for each book- so I don't think you can get spoilers unless you read ahead. yay!