Re-inventing The Wheel?

[Stratadrake]

Ah, gotta love the switch back from daylight savings time. You know, the look of fresh morning dew on the windows, the heat of a bright sun on a clear sky, the smell of fresh spam in my inbox....

Um, wait a minute :lol:

Anyway, this thread is inspired from a comment I received this morning saying, and I paraphrase, "this was copied off a tutorial elsewhere".

Few things send a person into red-alert mode faster than an attack on originality :angry:

But... in this day and age, in an Internet full of thousands upon [i]millions[/i] of ideas, stories, and pictures, you have to wonder, exactly WHAT constitutes truly "original".

Because if you look hard enough, sooner or later you'll find something just like it that is [i]also[/i] considered original.

Drawing from real life? Isn't that just copying the appearance of a real object ont oa 2D surface medium?

Drawing from TV, cartoons, etc.? Isn't that just copying a character down on paper or canvas, also?

Drawing from one's imagination? They say that great minds think alike. What do you call it, then, if two different minds, each according to their own individual tastes and inspirations, come up with the same idea?

"Re-Inventing the Wheel" is perhaps the best way to phrase it.

In a day and age where every princess has been rescued, every dragon slain, kingdom saved, where it seems every subject matter has been already done, what do you define as original?

Perhaps the only way to define original is with respect to one's sphere of reference?

Then what do you do when another's sphere of reference includes something quite similar to one of your own?
_________________
Strata here: [url=http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/user/242293]Nanowrimo[/url] - [url=www.fanart-central.net/user-Stratadrake.php]FAC[/url] - [url=http://stratadrake.deviantart.com]dA[/url] - [url=www.furaffinity.net/user/Stratadrake/]FA[/url]
[size=9]Disclaimer: Posts may contain URLs. Click [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife]at your own risk.[/url][/size]

[cstdenis]

There is somthing like 38 different plots that everything is just a variation of.
_________________
You will obey or molten silver will be poured into your ears.

[DG-sama]

I hear you Strata. If one more person comments on one of my Clinic Boys pictures saying it reminds them of Sliver's stuff, or did I get the idea from Sliver's Hospital Induced Sickness pictures.. I. Will. Scream. T.T The only reason they say this is because of a slight simialrity between settings. She uses a goth/punk hospital and so do I (I use the term goth/punk very loosly for my Clinic Boys, I only have one character in the whole concept that actually dresses in a goth/punk style when not in uniform). I even had one girl actually email me saying I was a bitch and an attention-whore and I should "burn in hell for ripping Sliver's masterpieces" Safe to say that did not make me very happy. It makes me mad when people say I'm copying just because of similarities in the surface style. My concepts are completly different from hers

I have nothing against Sliver, she's an awsome artist and all, even have her on my favs list. But yeah Clinic Boys has been my baby long since I even came to FAC, I've only just recently been working really hard on the concept. Been planning to turn it into a webcomic. It gets really depressing and hard to work on it when people show that kind of hostility.

Eh sorry for the rant it's just something that's been on my mind for a while now and this just gives me a chance to vent it out ^^
_________________
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v142/DG-sama/avatars/kingsig.jpg[/img]

God damn you signature WORK!

[Lexar]

I don't really know anyone who does the same stuff as I do, in style or subject.

[Stratadrake]

[quote]There is somthing like 38 different plots that everything is just a variation of.[/quote]

I've heard that too . . . but just what are they?
_________________
Strata here: [url=http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/user/242293]Nanowrimo[/url] - [url=www.fanart-central.net/user-Stratadrake.php]FAC[/url] - [url=http://stratadrake.deviantart.com]dA[/url] - [url=www.furaffinity.net/user/Stratadrake/]FA[/url]
[size=9]Disclaimer: Posts may contain URLs. Click [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife]at your own risk.[/url][/size]

[Lexar]

damsel in distress, hero must save her, is certainly one of them

[cstdenis]

[quote="Stratadrake (Strata)"] [quote]There is somthing like 38 different plots that everything is just a variation of.[/quote]

I've heard that too . . . but just what are they? [/quote]
Google search gives this

Supplication (in which the Supplicant must beg something from Power in authority)
Deliverance
Crime Pursued by Vengeance
Vengeance taken for kindred upon kindred
Pursuit
Disaster
Falling Prey to Cruelty of Misfortune
Revolt
Daring Enterprise
Abduction
The Enigma (temptation or a riddle)
Obtaining
Enmity of Kinsmen
Rivalry of Kinsmen
Murderous Adultery
Madness
Fatal Imprudence
Involuntary Crimes of Love (example: discovery that one has married one's mother, sister, etc.)
Slaying of a Kinsman Unrecognized
Self-Sacrificing for an Ideal
Self-Sacrifice for Kindred
All Sacrificed for Passion
Necessity of Sacrificing Loved Ones
Rivalry of Superior and Inferior
Adultery
Crimes of Love
Discovery of the Dishonor of a Loved One
Obstacles to Love
An Enemy Loved
Ambition
Conflict with a God
Mistaken Jealousy
Erroneous Judgement
Remorse
Recovery of a Lost One
Loss of Loved Ones.
Mistaken Identity
_________________
You will obey or molten silver will be poured into your ears.

[Stratadrake]

Wow. How long did it take to find that? I couldn't find anything....
_________________
Strata here: [url=http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/user/242293]Nanowrimo[/url] - [url=www.fanart-central.net/user-Stratadrake.php]FAC[/url] - [url=http://stratadrake.deviantart.com]dA[/url] - [url=www.furaffinity.net/user/Stratadrake/]FA[/url]
[size=9]Disclaimer: Posts may contain URLs. Click [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife]at your own risk.[/url][/size]

[jhonenfreak]

If everything was 100% original, then no one could ever claim to have had inspiration. Every work of art is going to be modeled after something that exists in nature or that is man-made. If it not, then most people would likely consider it to be some abstract shape or squiggle... something that's been done before as well. As for stories, that list Denis posted seems to cover it. It'd be amazing if someone could come up with a plot that didn't already fit into one of those catagories. I surly couldn't think of anything else.
_________________
[url=http://starrust.com][img]http://starrust.com/images/linksout/starrust2.gif[/img][/url]

[Stratadrake]

[quote]Google search gives this...[/quote]

Ah, found some links, like these:
http://ming.tv/flemming2.php/__show_articl...0010-001347.htm
http://domin.dom.edu/depts/gslis/stumpers/...number_of_plots
http://rpglibrary.blackgate.net/articles/s...ng/36plots.html

The last one is tuned more to RPG's but it gives better description/examples of what each one is.
_________________
Strata here: [url=http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/user/242293]Nanowrimo[/url] - [url=www.fanart-central.net/user-Stratadrake.php]FAC[/url] - [url=http://stratadrake.deviantart.com]dA[/url] - [url=www.furaffinity.net/user/Stratadrake/]FA[/url]
[size=9]Disclaimer: Posts may contain URLs. Click [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife]at your own risk.[/url][/size]

[Babs]

i hate people who copy from other people's work, i mean das it take that much brain storming to think up your own art


[QUOTE] i am maybe diffrent from the others but atlist i am me

[jhonenfreak]

[quote="Babs (barbara)"] i mean das it take that much brain storming to think up your own art [/quote]
Actually, it does. And that's what makes each individual piece of art so unique... the time and effort put into creating it. Think about M.C. Echser's work. I doubt any of that just [i]came[/i] to him. He really had to think about it and even used math to complete his art work. Anyone can just draw a random person standing there, and that isn't all too intresting to look at. The more thought put into a piece of work, the more people are drawn in to it.
_________________
[url=http://starrust.com][img]http://starrust.com/images/linksout/starrust2.gif[/img][/url]

[Lexar]

I remember an unrealtournament level inspired by escher... it was totally confusing, but awesome at the same time.

I spend a lot of time thinking about the actual picture too. Composition is everything, once you understand how important it is.

[jhonenfreak]

True. An artist must pay attention to subject matter, position, lighting/shading, color (sometimes), detail, background, time (day,night, present, past, future...), feeling conveyed, any message the art work is sending, and whether or not it is actually intresting to look at. The medium the artist uses also has a big impact on the final product.
_________________
[url=http://starrust.com][img]http://starrust.com/images/linksout/starrust2.gif[/img][/url]

[Stratadrake]

Another tidbit to throw in to this topic. I was asked to check out a picture and specifically, a comment somebody left on it. It was a dragon picture I had seen (which I'll refer to as "Red") and commented on, my comment being to the tune of "You based this off of a reference picture, right? I've seen it before..." .

The other person left a comment saying "This picture was copied off of (link), even the shading is copied!"

Methinks the person was a little too quick & loose to use the word "copied". I checked out the other picture (which I'll refer to as "Gray"). I looked at them both, and my (non-official) opinion is: "Red" dragon is not copied as in stolen or traced.

"Gray" dragon was sketched and completed in pencil with good detail but minimum shading. "Red" dragon was also sketched in pencil, but on top of which the artist shaded it using colored pencil -- a technique I'm familiar with, because I used to do the same thing with my old drawings.

Both pictures are of the same type of dragon in the same pose, but there are a lot of differences between the two. "Gray" dragon is fully contained in the picture, while "Red" dragon extends beyond the edges of the image shown. The details are close but no cigar, because I can spot different patterns of texture in use between the two of them. And the composition, the proportions of each, are slightly different as well.

So my conclusion, unofficial as it is, is that "Red" dragon was not copied off of "Gray" dragon, and I left a comment saying so.

Really, people should not be too quick to cry "COPIED!!!" when they see a drawing of the same subject in the same pose as another artist's. That happens a lot in the video game characters section with artists who can't come up with original poses for their characters.

Besides, I think the truth of the issue is that both "red" and "gray" dragon were individually based upon the same other reference picture (something high quality like you'd find posters of in stores) .

Two different artists, at two different times, making a drawing based upon the same pictorial reference.....
_________________
Strata here: [url=http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/user/242293]Nanowrimo[/url] - [url=www.fanart-central.net/user-Stratadrake.php]FAC[/url] - [url=http://stratadrake.deviantart.com]dA[/url] - [url=www.furaffinity.net/user/Stratadrake/]FA[/url]
[size=9]Disclaimer: Posts may contain URLs. Click [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife]at your own risk.[/url][/size]

[DragonicFlames]

I never think an artist has stolen anyone's work, unless I have the book or the picture (like my art) in my hands.

Dg-sama, I have seen your Clinic Boys and Sliver's Hospital Induced Sickness (in fact she inspired me to creat my own OC Por-sama, which was some what of a spin off.. but not really any more. ) And I can clearly say that they are completely two different things.

NOW, I have a story for you guys about copied art works, myself.

Looking over some things one day on the internet when I pulled up into an artist's gallery. Picked out a picture and started to look at it. This I will called "Dragon 1". Dragon 1 was a copied picture right out of a drawing book I have in my house. Now the artist stated in the picture that her cousin had drew this. (Now weither or not this is true it is up to you to believe), but I whiped out my book, looked at it, looked at the picture. It was the same one. Clearly, the picture was scanned out of the book and sent.

Even if it were a sketched picture, there would be hesitant lines, were the person had to removed the pensil and edit it. No, it was copied right out of the book.

Now that is THE only time, I have EVER said something has been copied. I do say it looks similiar, but it isn't the same.

Me I look at the other people's pictures, most of the time, I look at them to see how they are drawing items, so I can improve my own skill. But none or atleast most of the pictures never look the same to me.

I think people just want to get some people suspended, because they want to get back at them for something. Unless I have proof, I never accuse.
_________________
[img]http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b362/Dragonicflamesfac/DFsig2.jpg[/img]
[u]Thank You, Layz :heart:[/u]

[clarion]

There's a difference between "copying" and "referencing". I don't consider reproducing something line for line referencing. That's copying. It can be useful as a learning tool (I had to do it in art class, and a lot of people learn to draw that way), but I don't think people should copy something and then claim it's their own original work. It's a reproduction--show it if you want, but state clearly what it's a reproduction of and credit the original artist.

Referencing is totally different, because you can use reference in a picture and still have an original work. If you're using a reference, you're not copying it line-by-line--you're just using it for help with some small element of the overall picture. A lot of times I have trouble with poses or with a more specific section of anatomy. I get a reference to help, either by looking in the mirror or finding some pictures of a similar pose so that I can see how mine *should* look. It's still my original work, I just had to get a little help with something while I was drawing it.

I think people can take too an extreme of a stand on referencing. I've seen some actually condemn others for using reference photos, which is IMO really damn stupid. It's like putting out one eye and then looking down on other people for drawing with two. :wacko: However, I do think an artist needs to draw the line between referencing and copying, because even if you don't end up with a bunch of rabid art-theft investigators breathing down your neck, someone who does nothing but copy will never develop as an artist beyond reproducing what other people have already drawn first.

[CyberkittyKG]

I totally agree with Clarion on the difference between copying and referencing...I think I already said something like this on another thread.

But another thing to add; there [i]is[/i] a limit to human imagination, as infinite as it may seem. There is nothing new under the sun, as they say.

Also, when someone borrows an idea from another work of art, it will be drawn from that person's point of view, so it will become new. I think that if an old idea is redrawn in a fresh and creative way, then it will become original.

I just recently had an experience with seeing artwork that looks like one of my ideas, even though it was obvious that they were conceived independently. I drew a sketch of a realistic heart with wings, inspired by the more abstract version I've seen in tattoos (I still need to finish it...aaargh, it's the curse of the unfinished art). My version was a bit different, because I drew mine with bloody chains wrapped around the heart with a huge padlock. Well, a month later, I saw a BeBe advertisement with a picture of a new bottle for perfume, in the shape of a heart, and also wrapped in chains. And then I saw the Papa Roach album cover with a heart and wings (at least I think it was Papa Roach, correct me if I'm wrong...sometimes my usually good memory fails me).

[Beatlechick90]

I use photgraphs and real life, and I really don't see anything wrong with that. It's representation and many famous pictures have been done in that way. Do you think the Mona Lisa was painted from imagination?
_________________
[url=http://dollyrockersinc.piczo.com][img]http://pic.piczo.com/img/i122379787_59088_3.gif[/img][/url]