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Am I Breaking The Rules?

 
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Rei-Clone
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's been a while since I've updated my fanart-central gallery, but the best one in it has been accused of not being my own work, time and time again, and I'm a little sick of it, so I am posting here.

I know it says not to post the artist or the piece under ANY circumstances, but this is a but confusing, as it is my own art I am 'reporting.' However, I suppose I will attach the picture and supply the URL if allowed.


So here's the deal. The attatched picture is my own work, with heavy, heavy references as it was meant to mimic the style of the popular manga Death Note. I have checked several times, and I see no rule against 'eyeballing,' copying, or even tracing.
It has been accused more than once to be.. screw it, I'm going to directly quote what they said:
[quote][i]"Aren't those all pictures from the manga,meshed together...?They look like they're from the manga."
"you really should specify when you use actual images from the manga, you could get in trouble for copywriting."
"Even if you said that you used official images, I don't think you're allowed to post this here. You have to have made it yourself, not made a collage."
"That is copyrighted material you are using. I should report this."[/i][/quote]

I never said I used official images, not even on my deviantART. This is not a photomanipulation, I did not 'edit' the images to my desire, I DREW them, with my mouse.
I am not trying to hide the fact that I used heavy references on this piece, and in fact people who read Death Note may find it quite obvious, as the 7th frame is a famous line/frame.

If this is against the rules, I will be glad to remove it.
If not, is there any way to proclaim that this is my work, and for people to stop accusing me? Any 'admin message' like they do on Newgrounds when a piece is constantly accused of being stolen?


If you need further proof that this is my own work, I still have the PSD, and I can tell you exactly how I made it.
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Brianhjh
 


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 8014
Location: Queen's University

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember hunting down the original that FMA pic. In terms of style, you really seem to be all over place, and you seem to process quite a large quantity of pictures in short amount of time.

[quote]I see no rule against 'eyeballing,' copying, or even tracing. [/quote]

no, but it is heavily shunned. What's the point? when you make something perfectly mimicking its style without even changing any poses, it's no longer is "art", it becomes an exercise. The underlying message of having them in your gallery is "look! I can perfectly mimic their style, woot!"

And that DN collage stands out from your other pictures. I'd be suspicious of that if I were a mod too, and PSD don't prove a thing, neither does an animation from Flash MX. Unless you present a video of you drawing without direct tracing, the whole thing is up in the air.


I still can't fathom why people would have pictures that looks like an exact replica of something else in their gallery which is supposed to be unique.

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Rei-Clone
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As for the ' large quantity of pictures in short amount of time' that's because this isn't my main art account, so every once in a while I go "Wow fanart-central exists" and do a mass upload, then forget about here.

On the topic of "I see no point in.." the point of this piece was that it was for a contest in which one was to draw a picture of how it would be when L came back to life. Oh noes, a spoiler.
Therefore, the whole point of it was to be like an actual page from the manga, taking care to observe even the size of what a regular page would be, and the positioning/number of the frames.

[quote]no, but it is heavily shunned.[/quote]
I was not shunned for nor accused of copying, or tracing. I was accused of using and making a collage of pictures from the manga, which I clearly did not do.

[quote]PSD don't prove a thing[/quote]
Um, yes it does. It proves that I did draw this, and that I am not breaking the rules, especially on the fact that I tell you exactly how I did it, such as why some lines look different than others, and why the first two frames look weird on some people's monitors(I didn't notice this until a few weeks ago, when I went to a friend's house).
You cannot find this picture anywhere on the internet except where I have posted it, and the PSD is not available anywhere from anyone except me. There are separate layers to it, and every pixel is the same as it was submitted. Do you think I'd really take the picture and redo every pixel on separate layers just to apaprently 'fake' that I really made it?

[quote]The underlying message of having them in your gallery is "look! I can perfectly mimic their style, woot!"[/quote]
Hentai artists profit from that ability, brah. |:

As for that FMA pic(I made two, but I think there's only one here), it's from the 2nd opening, IE the one shown in America. :}
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Brianhjh
 


Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 8014
Location: Queen's University

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]As for the ' large quantity of pictures in short amount of time' that's because this isn't my main art account, so every once in a while I go "Wow fanart-central exists" and do a mass upload, then forget about here.[/quote]

I was talking about your DA account, which is in your sig.

[quote]On the topic of "I see no point in.."  the point of this piece was that it was for a contest in which one was to draw a picture of how it would be when L came back to life. Oh noes, a spoiler. [/quote]

L = Ryuuku, OMFG


[quote]I was not shunned for nor accused of copying, or tracing. I was accused of using and making a collage of pictures from the manga, which I clearly did not do.[/quote]

It was a general comment, not directed at you.

[quote][quote]PSD don't prove a thing[/quote]
Um, yes it does. It proves that I did draw this, and that I am not breaking the rules, especially on the fact that I tell you exactly how I did it, such as why some lines look different than others, and why the first two frames look weird on some people's monitors(I didn't notice this until a few weeks ago, when I went to a friend's house).
You cannot find this picture anywhere on the internet except where I have posted it, and the PSD is not available anywhere from anyone except me. There are separate layers to it, and every pixel is the same as it was submitted. Do you think I'd really take the picture and redo every pixel on separate layers just to apaprently 'fake' that I really made it?[/quote]

You aren't getting the point, there was a guy who presented us with an animation of how he did it and he still got the boot, everything is replicable. PSD is worse in proving that the picture is original than WIPS and preliminary sketches.


[quote]As for that FMA pic(I made two, but I think there's only one here), it's from the 2nd opening, IE the one shown in America. :}[/quote]

Someone mentioned that if you turn cloud filter on that screencap, it resembes the picture you have there, and Photoshop filter is a no-no.



Now, isn't this format annoying?





Look, I'm not accusing you, I'm just telling you what the current situation is. Unless you prove to do mods that you actually drew it and they believe you, they're not gonna take care of your problem of having bunch of little girls screaming bloody murder at you for plagiarism.
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Stratadrake
Elder Than Dirt


Joined: 05 May 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]You cannot find this picture anywhere on the internet except where I have posted it, and the PSD is not available anywhere from anyone except me. There are separate layers to it, and every pixel is the same as it was submitted.[/quote]
Proving it to [b]yourself[/b] is easy -- proving it to someone else can be another matter entirely, especially when digital media is concerned. PSD format may preserve the layer composition of the image, but [i]only for the most recent save[/i] of that file. In other words, even if we had the PSD file, we can't verify whether [i]or not[/i] there could have been any additional layers merged or removed during the course of work on the drawing. And unless we have a copy of that PSD file for examination, we can't verify whether or not such a file even exists (beyond your word that it does).

In short, we can't say anything for certain, so to us it ends up [i]proving[/i] absolutely nothing.
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Brianhjh
 


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Location: Queen's University

PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is why I stick to traditional medium. Hell, even if someone steals my art and post it everywhere, at the end of the day, it is I that have the original on paper. :3


I should start a traditional medim users club, Fallen and Strata should join. :)


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Rei-Clone
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Joined: 25 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2005 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I fully acknowledge that you are not accusing me, but I am tired of the harassment and wanted a final yes or no, wanted to clear it up. Now that I got it, my question is answered, but I feel an obligation to respond to you and clear things up myself.
I thank you for telling me about the situation and how fanart-central works. I also give my thanks in your remark that I make my art fast and in varied styles, for I take it as a compliment, regardless if you meant well or not, and if you didn't, I apologize. However, I am used to many kinds of forum cultures, so this format does not annoy me in the least.

Here's a 'WIP' : http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/20229683/
Though I doubt it'll do any better than a PSD, as you might as well have said that I erased some parts and then shrunk it, and as for sketches, I could ahve just drawn a phony sketch over the actual picture and called it so.
That is why I made a note that I had the PSD and could tell you exactly how I did everything, because, as I said and as you've read, It's harder to cut things into separate layers and make up crap about something I didn't do than it is to draw over things.

As for the cloud filter, I'd like to see someone do that. While the background was quite obviously done with the cloud filter, if I expanded a screenshot that big, it would be sorely distorted. http://www.deviantart.com/view/13683524/


It seems that we both understand that my piece most likely isn't a photochop, and that it doesn't seem to be breaking the rules, and that I most likely aren't breaking the rules but might deserve to be shunned. Alright, so that means I can report it if any major flaming goes on, eh? Good.
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bungakawa2000
Still very bored


Joined: 15 Nov 2005
Posts: 261

PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[OT][quote]Hentai artists profit from that ability, brah. |:
[/quote]Then you haven't seen much good hentai. Good hentai artists are identifiable by their style, weither they use original characters or not.[/OT]

Regarding the original question... Unless I'm mistaken, if you are accused of stealing art, the burden of proof is on the people making the accusation. If original art that looks way too similar to yours is found, then you might be in trouble. If people just snap their fingers saying "I know I've seen this somewhere else!", then you shouldn't have too much to worry about. Yes, the comments are annoying, but I don't think you have many options there.
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DragonicFlames
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Joined: 24 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Umm opps? It was I who had the first thread questioning your art and then I forgot you're name so. Wtf ever. xD

we even had a screencap on that thread of how it looked extremely like the FMA beginning sequence. : O :3 I guess you hate me now. xD Oh well.

Brian, hey, I'd join. I use regular ol' paper and pencils and stuff like that. ;3

Anyway, so yeah, I still think it was odd pic that is still questionable. Most people on this site aren't that good to draw a picture like that. And even so, it still looks like it's been straight copied.

And I'm sorry but people have been deleted for tracing. Just for the fact that it is tracing. It's not your actual picture it's someone else's, you just went over it.

It's like that Pixel art crap with the um.. sonic thing where hey just colored overtop of them and made it their own pic.

:3 So.. yeah.

---

Also, half of your pics look nothing like that picture. So it's still questionable. I mean really.
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Rei-Clone
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suppose I shall address internets user bungakawa2000 first.
Indeed. It seems that quite a few people like it when doujinshis are drawn similar to their original style, though popular artists do tend to have distinct styles. Yeah, like cosine. Always critizised and hated, but for some reason popular. Silly 4channers.

Next up!
Ooh, there was a thread on that? *checks back*
Mm, that's cool, it even went to two pages, but now I'm confused again. So copying isn't bannable, but tracing is bannable, yes? I don't feel any contempt towards any of you, to be honest.

Also, when you said "I still think it was odd pic that is still questionable," what do you mean? I don't understand that sentence.
But yes, I first got here because eevee1 direct a bunch of us at some art thief stealing her art on here. After the incident I decided to join.

I'm quite surprised that you'd say as much as half of them look nothing like that picture, as much of my art on here is old, and much of the first page of my deviantART is full of quick christmas presents. ..Though I did just finish drawing 70 people in one picture today, would that count as a lot? :/

..Yeah, I finally found out what Brian probably meant when it was said that I seem to process quite a large quantity of pictures in short amount of time. Ha! Indeed. I don't often draw without a mouse, so pencil drawings are fast.

Anyways, two concluding notes.
Since I seem to be at a digital artist minority in this thread, I'd like to point out that pixel art is not that MS Painted vandalism, for pixel art is when every pixel is placed in every spot it is meant to, it is not using the pencil tool and drawing in solids.
As well, I'd like to note once again that I said I'd have no problem removing the pictures.
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DragonicFlames
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="Rei-Clone (Rei)"]
Also, when you said "I still think it was odd pic that is still questionable," what do you mean? I don't understand that sentence. [/quote]
Because it looks too much like offical art. I know that what you wanted to happen, but it's not good. : (
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Stratadrake
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the points DF is (IMHO) trying to get at is that if all you do is draw from references, references, and more references, to the point where yours can be mistaken for the official thing, then you haven't developed any [b]of your own[/b] artistic style, you've just learned to imitate someone else's.
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DragonicFlames
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 12:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lmao.. sure.. strata... let's go with that. xD
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