Twilight Princess

Stratadrake · Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: Twilight Princess

Even as the Wii is still sold out in many stores (guess I was one of the lucky ones around Tillamook as I was able to attend its midnight launch sale), I feel like discussing this game.

Because you know Strata really likes a game if he can't shut up about it.

The most anticipated Zelda game for one of the most anticipated gaming consoles ever certainly could use a thread to call its own, yes?

But I shouldn't go sit down and start talking about all the details that many of you are still saving up or waiting for. I've only put about 4 hours in to the story so far -- opening sequence, small tasks around the village of Ordon, Link's first night as a wolf, and the first bonafide dungeon (the Forest Temple). I've figured out how to defeat the boss (first bosses are always easy) but ran out of hearts a few strokes from the end.

So what can I say about it without spoiling anything? As we all know, when Link enters the Twilight Realm he is immediately transformed into a wolf. Well, Link didn't enter the Twilight Realm by choice, and Midna likes to pretend she's the one in charge and that Link has to do everything she says like some servant.

As with Ocarina and Wind Waker, Link bears a Triforce mark on his sword hand -- err, paw -- and you get to meet Zelda rather shortly after that.

Though, there are a lot of little things early on that reveal how Twilight Princess was originally intended for the GameCube. Link's animations seem a bit plain -- not "bad", just merely unexpressive compared to other titles such as Okami, FFXII, or Kingdom Hearts. You swing Link's sword by swinging the Wii Remote in your hand, but the actual direction of his swings won't necessarily match yours and Link slices horizontally or vertically in the same manners as he did on the N64.

Aiming, on the other hand, couldn't be any more intuitive than simple point-and-click. For example, call down a hawk, point at the victim of your choice, then sit back and watch the feathers fly. You just can't do this much precision aiming with an analog stick (or two).

Oh, and did I mention everything is mirrored? Just compare the [url=http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=5879&type=mov&pl=game]E3 2005 trailer[/url] to the [url=http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?id=14623&type=mov&pl=game]November 2006 trailer[/url]. This makes Link right-handed in the Wii version, so that his sword hand coincides with the Wii Remote rather than the Nunchuk.

But really, unless you seriously care about a left-handed Link, you won't even notice the flipped world. I certainly didn't, and right-handed protagonists are already well established.

And speaking of the trailers, I think the 2005 trailer did a more cinematic job of when Link morphs into a wolf. It was a smoother sequence; here in the Twilight realm Link doubles over, and then basically "poof", he's a wolf. Not as cinematic, but it happens a lot quicker and that carries a little shock value of its own.

Nevertheless, once Link returns to humanity from his first howl as a wolf and dons the traditional green tunic and white tights, that's where the familiar Zelda charm sets in. Sure, there are a lot of things in the "not actually bad, but could have been done better" department, but when you're surrounded by two or three enemies and can only fight your way out, you no longer notice (nore really care) whether Link performs a horizontal or vertical swipe as you start flailing about and mowing them down. Or if you start firing off a volley of slingshots (or arrows -- I haven't acquired the bow yet) one enemy at a time.

And this only gets better when you start to notice the little subtle touches Nintendo cared enough to put in, many of which are with regards to Link's new "life as a furry" (as G4 labels it). You can hear the broken chain on his front leg clinking as you run around; you can hear each and every breath and pant he makes; Link even growls when locked-on to an enemy, and his lips ripple as he bares his fangs. Or how when I fell off the castle roof (with Midna in tow) and after losing a heart to the void and being teleported back to safety, Midna drops out of the sky onto Link's back and Link quickly casts a surprise glance at who it is that's landing on him.

I almost wish this was a wolf game instead of a Zelda game. I did, after all, play and finish an excellent wolf game (Okami) shortly before the Wii launch date, and I hate to say that Okami offers some strong competition for the Zelda series (though of a different note -- Zelda is established, Okami the newcomer) so perhaps I was setting myself up for a shock to begin with. Note to self: Never let that happen again.

So, for now . . . from only a few humble hours in, the new Zelda game is everything you expect it to be, but just don't set your expectations too high. The new Zelda game is certainly not going to win a "six out of five". After being high on a game about a watercolor wolf for 40+ hours, the first hour of the new Zelda game actually felt disappointing, like a sour Skittle -- a bitter shell around otherwise (and, for all intents and purposes) sweet candy.

Incidentally, one hour is about the point where Link acquired his new fur.... Rolling eyes

Maybe I [i]still[/i] have a bit of Okami on the brain . . . uh, I don't think that will [i]ever[/i] wear off now. Wink

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Rikuchan · Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 9:59 pm Post subject:

Aw come on, quit torturing me.. Crying or Very sad

Although, I think Wal-mart may get some in soon. I saw some accessories in the game case that were not there before.
Untill then could I borrow yours for like..um.. forever?
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Stratadrake · Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject:

. . . and to think I specifically avoided explaining any more about the game's narrative or plot than you probably already know from the trailers and news. Is it merely because I talk at length?

The back of the gamebox does the Final Fantasy type thing where they just show a bunch of screenshots with captions instead of writing full paragraphs about what the game is about. The only [i]hint[/i] about the story that the box mentions is under a screenshot of wolf Link and Midna where it says "Search for clues as a sacred wolf when unnatural twilight blankets Hyrule".

. . . That's all the story info the box tells you. You learn the rest as you go (which is why I haven't said anything).

There is a somewhat funny occurence when, after Midna and Link escape from the dungeon, Midna teleports Link back to the normal world. Link lands in the healing spring and then Midna speaks up about how she forgot to mention something. It's one of those moments when one part of you is thinking "uh-oh" and the other part realizes that what likes ahead is going to be . . . weird but cool.

But really, I'm still only 4 hours in. The events occuring right now seem to imply a short adventure, [b]but[/b] remember how when you recovered the Master Sword in the SNES Zelda, that turned out to be only half of the story. Web reviews are confirming it as the biggest, largest, and longest Zelda adventure ever.

Other good news is that Nintendo is working on delivering steady shipments of Wii consoles, which should mean being able to find one sooner than . . . say, a 360 during its launch period last year.
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Kes · Forum Stalker Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 1549 Location: UK

I waited for ages to only find that this game wasn't for the Gamecube, got delayed so much. I've gotten addicted to the previous ones, especially Ocarina Of Time, so was very interested in getting it.
Sadly the Wii system isn't out here yet Sad

And can't afford it much at the moment but more interested in getting it before PS3. From what I've heard it's a good system and if it's sold out already must make it well liked this time.
Does it have the usual loads of mini tasks to do on the side? Loads of heart piece's to find? Any idea whether he's got any transport? Like his horse in Ocarina Of Time and the boat in the Windwaker. Just curious whether it kept some of the same things or was a different styled game.
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Fayore · Moderator Joined: 12 Mar 2004 Posts: 6195

[quote="Kes"]I waited for ages to only find that this game wasn't for the Gamecube[/quote]

http://www.gamespot.com/gamecube/action/thelegendofzelda/index.html

Apparently the GC version is due Dec.13?

Stratadrake · Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:04 am Post subject:

Nintendo promised they'd make it for the GameCube, and although they ported it over for the Wii, they're still going to release the GameCube version. The only real difference being, of course, the control scheme and the fact that they didn't mirror it so Link will still appear left-handed.

GameSpy and IGN have a lot of screenshots, some of which look more like vidcaps taken from the actual game than the officially-released ones earlier.

For example:
[list][*][url=http://media.wii.ign.com/media/748/748589/img_4039311.html][b]This[/b][/url] is where Midna shows up. Link doesn't know a thing about her, and he is most definitely snarling back. By comparison, [url=http://media.wii.gamespy.com/media/748/748589/img_4044878.html][b]this[/b][/url] shot was taken from moments later, when Link [i]isn't[/i] snarling at her.

[*]Like I said, you [b][url=http://media.wii.gamespy.com/media/748/748589/img_4044885.html]do[/url][/b] meet Princess Zelda early on and she explains quite a bit about what's happening.

[*]Remember, [url=http://media.cube.gamespy.com/media/572/572738/img_2791215.html][b]this[/b][/url] is what the Twilight Realm was originally going to look like; but now, it looks like [url=http://media.wii.gamespy.com/media/748/748589/img_3859812.html][b]this[/b][/url] and [url=http://media.wii.ign.com/media/748/748589/img_3660962.html][b]this[/b][/url] -- color improves everything.

[*][url=http://media.cube.gamespy.com/media/572/572738/img_2983247.html][b]This[/b][/url] screenshot was released around last year or so, and the first thing I noticed about is that in this pic, although Link is a wolf, Midna [b]isn't[/b] riding on his back. Turns out that this is because Midna cannot exist in the "realm of light" any more than Link could (normally) exist in the Twilight Realm . . . I knew that had to indicate something cool in store, which was probably why I set it as my desktop background for months. You'll definitely get used to seeing Link on all fours; you'll have to.[/list:u]
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karatekid22 · Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 8:37 am Post subject:

[quote="Kes"]I waited for ages to only find that this game wasn't for the Gamecube, got delayed so much. I've gotten addicted to the previous ones, especially Ocarina Of Time, so was very interested in getting it.
Sadly the Wii system isn't out here yet Sad

And can't afford it much at the moment but more interested in getting it before PS3. From what I've heard it's a good system and if it's sold out already must make it well liked this time.
Does it have the usual loads of mini tasks to do on the side? Loads of heart piece's to find? Any idea whether he's got any transport? Like his horse in Ocarina Of Time and the boat in the Windwaker. Just curious whether it kept some of the same things or was a different styled game.[/quote]
I hear ya, the old ones were great, espescially ocaraina of time and majoras mask. I'v been practically killing my games waiting for this. then, it turns out that i have too low of a budget to buy it, and it'll take me at least 5 months to save up enough money for the Wii. Not including the games. Crying or Very sad

Rikuchan · Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:04 am Post subject:

[quote]. . . and to think I specifically avoided explaining any more about the game's narrative or plot than you probably already know from the trailers and news. Is it merely because I talk at length? [/quote]

Actualy part of it is because of your ability to describe the overal experience so well without giving any spoilers, and the other 75% is from my goofy decision to pick up my reserved copy of Zelda when I don't even have my Wii yet. It sits in the little cabnet under my TV, waiting for me. It seens to taunt me every time I open the door. Or maybe thats just my dad asking me "How's that Wii, oh wait, you dont have one yet." Laughing

On the other hand, I have seen that some stores are out of TP. Had I not reserved it, I might have ended up with another problem. Having a Wii and no Zelda.
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Stratadrake · Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 5:14 pm Post subject:

[quote]Actualy part of it is because of your ability to describe the overal experience so well without giving any spoilers,[/quote]
Acknowledged.

[quote]I hear ya, the old ones were great, espescially ocaraina of time and majoras mask.[/quote]
I actually liked Majora's Mask a lot better than Ocarina. This was primarily because of the much more varied gameplay, my clear favorite being Zora Link and swimming in the ocean. The time-loop based story actually created a lot of replay value, especially since you could return to a previous dungeon and beat it (or its boss) all over again. If you wanted to show someone a certain boss fight, you didn't have to keep a spare save file right before that point, you could simply go there and do a rematch.

Which is one reason why I think that, were it not for the new wolf mechanics, Twilight Princess would be little more than a stale and relatively uninspired title. The gameplay felt downright boring for the first hour, until the fateful point where Link is grabbed into the Twilight Realm and morphed into a wolf. Wolf Link controls virtually the same as Link normally does but without items at your disposal, plus the ability to "sense" things, and talk with animals but not people, dig under walls but be unable to open a simple door, everything just [i]feels[/i] different. And as a wolf Link doesn't seem like a silent character anymore, maybe because wolves aren't expected to talk anyways, but this is definitely a refreshing change. For example, when Link calls a falcon early on, all you do is point it at something then send it flying to attack or grab it. But call that same falcon as a wolf, and it is totally different because the falcon actually talks to you. In fact, the first time you do this, the falcon actually gives you an apology for having to attack you earlier.

Uh oh... I foresee a battle between Okami and Twilight Princess in my view of which is the better game, and neither one could possibly go down without a fight Wink

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Rikuchan · Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 8:58 am Post subject:

I found a controller for ya Strata. I don't know if it is authentic or somebody is just really obsessed, but it is a cool idea.
http://i1.tinypic.com/mkaetw.jpg
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Stratadrake · Posted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:14 pm Post subject:

That is totally the creation of an obsessed fan.
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Project_X · Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:30 am Post subject:

That is a controler for me!

Rikuchan · Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:21 am Post subject:

I might try to make my own. I just need a Wii controler, some balsa wood, and my Dremmel. Of course I would have to find a differant way of attatching the sword because the other one prevents use of the point and click function.
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cstdenis · Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:22 am Post subject:

I am playing it right now

Stratadrake · Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject:

Rly? We'all gotta hear this...

Far as I'm concerned (still only about 5 hours in), Twilight Princess didn't find its [i]identity[/i] until Link gets turned into a wolf. Like I said earlier, in just the first two hours of the game, you spend nearly a full one of those hours as a wolf.

And in case anyone is interested, Link was turned into a wolf not simply "because" he stepped into the Twilight Realm, it happened for his own [i]protection[/i]. Otherwise he'd be as trapped in the Twilight Realm as "Mr. Anderson" was in the Matrix, knowing nearly nothing about what was really going on and powerless to do anything.

As it stands now, taking out those large dark monsters is pretty fun. Jumping on them and gnawing at that mask doesn't get old, but as you've probably seen from the existing trailers, you can't actually finish them off until you use Midna's energy-field attack to pounce on and KO them as a group.

Link's second stint as a wolf happens near Kakariko Village. It's not quite as fun as the first time, but Midna does introduce you to teleporting in and out of the Twilight Realm using the sky portals, meaning you can return to just about everywhere else as a wolf.

There were a few torch puzzles though, having to carry a torch around in Link's mouth was amusing, especially when he had to blow up that one house to destroy some of the dark creatures. Oopsie...

After that came the moment where the villains kidnap Colin and you have to chase them down on horseback. Didn't feel as entertaining as it looked in the E3 demo footage, but the showdown on the bridge made it worthwhile. Obviously it wasn't quite as easy as the demo made it look, but....

I accidentally erased one of my older saves in the process. Oops, I wanted to keep that one. Now I'll just have to replay that sequence again....

And I want to catch what Midna's line was after teleporting Link back to the realm of light and telling him to get used to those four legs of his.
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cstdenis · Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:02 pm Post subject:

[quote]but as you've probably seen from the existing trailers, you can't actually finish them off until you use Midna's energy-field attack to pounce on and KO them as a group.[/quote]

Not true. You have to kill the last 2 together, but you don't HAVE to use Midna's power to do it.

I'm 30-something hours into the game.

Stratadrake · Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject:

Holy...

since when are you such a gamer?

. . . No spoilers, please. It's just not the same if you know beforehand.

[quote]You have to kill the last 2 together, but you don't HAVE to use Midna's power to do it.[/quote]
I guess so, you do still have the spin attack. But pouncing on them is just plain cooler. I actually got KO'ed by the group of four on Death Mountain, but only because it took me a long time to figure out how to get around the walls and attack the fourth. The other three kinda surrounded that area and I couldn't get out.
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Squidman · Posted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 9:56 pm Post subject:

I gotta know... does anyone have a player's guide for this game yet that they're willing to scan a page from? I'm desperately seeking some official Ganondorf art, and I figure that's as good a place as any to look.
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karatekid22 · Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject:

[quote="Stratadrake"] I actually liked Majora's Mask a lot better than Ocarina. This was primarily because of the much more varied gameplay, my clear favorite being Zora Link and swimming in the ocean. The time-loop based story actually created a lot of replay value, especially since you could return to a previous dungeon and beat it (or its boss) all over again. If you wanted to show someone a certain boss fight, you didn't have to keep a spare save file right before that point, you could simply go there and do a rematch.[/quote]

yeah, it was fun bashing into stuff like when you had to go into the pirates fortress, and that he had a barrier for a shield. Too bad it took magic power, or else i wouldve just swum around with it on. I also agree with you on the boss thing. Say if i got bored, I would just go to Odwala's or Goht's dungeons, and i'm beating up a baddie, or I would work on one of the dozens of sidequests to beat the game 100%, which brings me to my question, are there tons of sidequests on Twilight Princess?

Stratadrake · Posted: Sun Nov 26, 2006 5:22 pm Post subject:

Update: I'm now about 15 hours in, and now I can [i]finally[/i] bash those Poes. I'm still not entirely sure what happened between Zant (the armored figure who led the assault on Hyrule Castle) and Midna, but long story short . . . beautifully sad piano music heralds in some significant (if slightly unexpected) time as a wolf and a truly horrendous rainstorm around Hyrule, followed by another meeting with Princess Zelda, a unique puzzle-game in the forest, then . . . Master Sword time.

And the guards around Castle Town are hilarious cowards.

Boy, the third dungeon (in Lake Hylia) was pretty fun. The new Zora tunic looks awesome once you get used to it, and since you can switch the Iron Boots on and off as an item, Link maneuvers through the water as easily as the Zora Link did in Majora's Mask. And unlike N64 Zelda, he gets to fight underwater, too. And oh yeah, the way that boss battle end felt completely like a Shadow of the Colossus moment.

The new Hookshot (the "Clawshot") is much more flexible than the old one, primarily because once you've grappled onto a point it remains grappled until you let go and drop down.

And walking on the walls and ceiling of the Goron Mines up at Death Mountain was a complete blast.

Haven't seen what happens next in the plot -- right now I'm a little more interested in wiping out those pesky Poes. You just can't fight them as a human, you need Link's wolf abilities to do that.

And another subtle touch is, there are various stones that whistle with the sound of the wind. They're virtually silent to human Link, but wolf Link can hear them from nearly a mile away.
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