why coyote hunting is wrong

trueliesaa · Forum Scalleywag Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 984

I had posted some of this information, as well as one of the videos, in the PETA article, but I realize now that it didn't belong their, and deserved its own topic...

please be warned in advance that these videos, while not bloody or gory in anyway, show REAL violence, and should be watched with caution if you are squeamish...

I just felt like posting this here... I've posted it on all my other forums, and theough most people do not take my side in the matter, I carry on anyway...

coyotes are beautiful, wolflike creatures that live mainly in the desert, but a few can be found in large, grassy areas and forests. They are quite enjoyable to watch in their natural habitat, and are one of nature's best predators

however...

recently there has been an upsurge in the hunting of these poor animals, and their population has been declining, but not enough, sadly, for people to see the error of their ways....

I would like to start by saying that I am not COMPLETELY against ALL hunting... if you are poor and have no other way to survive than to hunt for food, than that is allowable, but hunting for sport, for fun ,or just to watch something die is wrong...

these videos show just how bad the coyote hunters are

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TksB9msUKo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7_BQp05EIc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8tFnBag17E

now, you tell me coyote hunting isn't sick and wrong... I stumbled across these on youtube, and now I use them to inform the masses about the tragedies of coyote hunting...

it is particularly disturbing that in some instances in the first video, as well as the third, that you can see the true evil in the way the hunting is done... the hunters call the coyote with a machine that emits noises similar to injured jackrabbits, making them think there is food... often times, the hunter will call the dog into such a close range that they could reach out and pet it, and the dog just stands there and stares, like that's exactly what it wants, to be petted, but the hunter opts to blow its brains out instead...

please reply and let me know what you think about this tragedy after having watched the videos... I think that watching them will be a real eye opener.
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Squidman · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 8:58 am Post subject:

First of all, people don't need to be "poor" to hunt for food. Some do it because they like natural meat that's free of preservatives and steroids, because of cultural significance, or just because they enjoy the sport of hunting and put the animals they kill to good use.

Anyway, coyotes kill livestock, pets, and make it dangerous for children. To the people living in areas with rampant coyote populations, they are pests. Hunting them within reason limits their threat to humans and domestic animals in the area and gets people outdoors. Demonize them all you want, but hunters donate thousands of dollars to wildlife charities like Ducks Unlimited every year.

The particular youtube video you were referencing in the politics forum was made of clips from an award-winning video for hunters called "Coyote Behavior." It was made by serious hunters, not just a bunch of jerks out there shooting at animals to watch them suffer. Bullets cannot kill something instantly unless you hit a very small area at the base of the brain. Hunters tend not to aim for it because that killing shot is very difficult to hit, and they say that they don't want to "leave a horribly wounded animal to die a slow and painful death", which would happen if they missed their target and simply blinded the animal, or took out a chunk of it's skull.

Don't assume that just because an animal doesn't instantly die like it would in the movies that it's being tortured.

Honestly, I'm personally not a fan of sport hunting or baiting, I think that if youre not going to eat the meat or make something out of the skin it's kind of a waste of an animal. However, I don't know the circumstances of the people living in this area, and I know that coyotes can be a menace. It's not like these guys are poaching pandas or kicking puppies or anything, so I don't really see anything tragic about it.
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trueliesaa · Forum Scalleywag Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 984

I just don't think the lifestock arguement is really a good enough reason... I live in Idaho, where there are a lot of farmers, so I know a few things

1. farmers have hundereds, sometimes thousands of cows, and losing a couple to coyotes isn't really a loss at all, as the animals have already had time to reproduce and make up for anything the farmer loses

2. any pet that is weak enough to be killed by a coyote should be kept indoors... small dogs and cats are not meant to be outdoor pets...

3. there are VERY FEW, if any, instances of coyotes attacking humans, and parents shouldn't be leaving their children outside in an area that is filled with wildlife of any kind anyway...

none of your excuses are worth taking the life of an animal... and definitely not the way that they do it, with the calls and such....

now if a farmer catches a coyote in the act, that could, POTENTIALLY be a different story, but going into THEIR HOME, BAITING THEM IN, AND BLOWING THEIR BRAINS OUT IS INEXCUSABLE... it is partially our fault that they're so close to farms in the first place, as we've torn down most of their natural home for our stupid factories and sh-t... nothing can justify hunting in the way that it is most widely practiced... NOTHING!
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London · Moderator Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 6474

What about say.. fishing? Fishermen go to bodies of water, lure them in, and then eventually kill them. Do you think that the millions of people who rely on the ocean as their main source of food should just.. stop?
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trueliesaa · Forum Scalleywag Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 984

as I said before... if that's the only way they can survive, then it's fine...
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Morbidmauler · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:05 pm Post subject:

well, im with him on this case. i think hunting coyotes is wrong. its not like i think all hunting is wrong. fishing, i consider a form of hunting, and i have no problem with it if you plan to either eat it or let it go. but i dont support the killing of any beautiful living creature as fun or sport. if you have no other way to live but to kill these creatures, then so be it. but to kill for bragging rights and trophys is just wrong to me. it makes me shiver when i walk into a house with a big trophy of some kind up on the wall. poor animals. theyre living creatures too. and coyotes in particular are some of the worlds most beautiful animals. its gory and wrong to kill for sport. well, in my opinion. believe what you want.
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Squidman · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:04 pm Post subject:

Farmers do not invest money in their livestock to feed coyotes, As much as you say that they don't need all of their animals and can deal with losing a few, that's still their property and their lifeblood. Obviously the farmers are prepared to deal with the loss of a few animals, but saying that they shouldn't care about wild animals killing their livestock is like saying Wal Mart shouldn't deal with shoplifters.

Even if you try to keep them inside, everyone's had some instance where there indoor pet got outside. And when you live in an area with predators roaming around, the chance that your pets are going to come back safe or get picked up by the pound so you can pick them up is significantly less likely.

And you didn't even address the issue that interest in hunting tends to increase people's awareness about the environment and wilderness conservation related charities. Even [u][url=http://www.audubon.org/]Audubon[/url][/u] himself killed and ate every bird he painted.

Foxes, bears, and wolves frequently roam the town I'm from, so I'm assuming that coyotes are a somewhat similar problem. I know people who have lost perfectly healthy cats and dogs to foxes and wolves that have snatched them right out of their yards. The fox populations are prone to explosively high numbers every other year or so, and that always leads to rampant rabies. The rabies spread to the wolves and leads them to come further into town and confront people walking alone or with their dogs.

The people back in town who hunt the foxes and wolves usually do so for the sake of selling the pelts, and for some people it makes up a good portion of their income so it's not like they're just wasting an animal. I just know that whenever I hear people who have no idea of what the circumstances in northern Manitoba are like complain about people hunting the animals up there it annoys me to no end, so I assume it's the same way for people in other parts of the world with different animal problems.

I know I'm probably not convincing anyone to change their opinion on hunting and I'm certainly not being convinced to amend my own views, so I probably won't follow this topic much anymore. I just wanted to throw out an opposing viewpoint before people started ranting about how terrible it is that cute things die sometimes.
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trueliesaa · Forum Scalleywag Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 984

if people cared about their lifestock so GODD-MN MUCH, maybe they'd invest in a little thing called a FENCE! You can get tall enough fences that wildlife won't get in, and I don't believe there is any excuse to hunt innocent animals that cannot be used for food... it's just... plain... wrong!
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WizardoftheWood · Has No Life Joined: 16 Oct 2005 Posts: 446

Who cares about coyotes?
Seriously they're mangy, and they keep killing my parents farm cats.

Brianhjh · Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:50 pm Post subject:

Most farms in Midwest is gazillians of hectacres big, putting a fence around it and maintaining it will cost farmers so much money, the stupid ones will resort to not minding few killed livestocks here and there, but the smart ones hunt.

[quote]I don't believe there is any excuse to hunt innocent animals that cannot be used for food... it's just... plain... wrong![/quote]

Tell that to few dozen hikers who lose their eyes due to overpopulation of bears, coyotes, and mountain lions.
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AngelusMortis · Very bored Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 159

In other words, livestock lost is revenue lost, and fences gained for protection is expenses gained. It's only worth it if that expense does not exceed the revenue you get from the livestock you would have lost to the coyotes or other predators.

I still think coyotes shouldn't be obsessed over as much as some other endangered species like some species of whales and turtles.

koujo · Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:34 pm Post subject:

hunting is wrong and "overpopulating" is not a good reason to hunt. The nature will deal with it her self. Like she is trying to deal with the overpopulation of human kind. Think about SARS and the Tsunami for instance. Where were these located? Richt in asua. The most fast growing population is in asia. Now The nature is trying to deal with it her own way. So if ther ereally is a overpopulation of anyt kind of animal. The nature can handle it her self.

Touzoku-joou · Oldbie Joined: 30 Oct 2004 Posts: 2399 Location: interweb

[quote="koujo"]hunting is wrong [/quote]

But keeping mass millions of livestock in cramped cages and corrals, forcing them to lead miserable lives, and ultimately throwing them, alive, into a meat grinder is okay, right? I know it's a mildly different subject that the subject of killing coyotes, but your generalization about hunting still gives me some lols. Humans are a part of nature too. Are you forgetting that?
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Squidman · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:45 am Post subject:

[quote="Touzoku-joou"]But keeping mass millions of livestock in cramped cages and corrals, forcing them to lead miserable lives, and ultimately throwing them, alive, into a meat grinder is okay, right?[/quote]

Now, now, that's PETA talk. Happy cows are tasty cows. Nowadays they try to keep them as calm and content as possible and make the execution quick and painless. Adrenaline gives meat unsavoury qualities.

Feedlots ≠ farming. Just because organizations that rely on shock tactics shove the unsavoury places in your face all the time doesn't mean it's an accurate portrayal of farming in general.

[quote]hunting is wrong and "overpopulating" is not a good reason to hunt. The nature will deal with it her self.[/quote]
Certainly disease will wipe out gross overpopulation in due time, but speaking as someone who grew up in an area where animals were prone to population explosions, it's not fun having diseased animals roam the streets of your town.

And in the case of animals like deer where huge populations will destroy entire forests, eating until they run out of food and die, natural resources usually sees fit to intervene and declare open season.
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Touzoku-joou · Oldbie Joined: 30 Oct 2004 Posts: 2399 Location: interweb

[quote="Squidman"][quote="Touzoku-joou"]But keeping mass millions of livestock in cramped cages and corrals, forcing them to lead miserable lives, and ultimately throwing them, alive, into a meat grinder is okay, right?[/quote]

Now, now, that's PETA talk. Happy cows are tasty cows. Nowadays they try to keep them as calm and content as possible and make the execution quick and painless. Adrenaline gives meat unsavoury qualities.

Feedlots ≠ farming. Just because organizations that rely on shock tactics shove the unsavoury places in your face all the time doesn't mean it's an accurate portrayal of farming in general.

[/quote]

I know it's awfully PETA-ish of me to say that, but one of my bigger pet peeves is when people bitch about hunting but then go buy a steak at the grocery store, as if the steak were just magically willed into existence without having ever been an animal at one time.
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Stratadrake · Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2007 6:45 pm Post subject:

[quote]I know it's awfully PETA-ish of me to say that, but one of my bigger pet peeves is when people bitch about hunting but then go buy a steak at the grocery store, as if the steak were just magically willed into existence without having ever been an animal at one time.[/quote]
That's usually where vegans enter the picture.
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Dewroo · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:56 pm Post subject:

[img]http://www. OH NOES

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bowiegranap · Very bored Joined: 01 Nov 2006 Posts: 218

[quote]
Happy cows are tasty cows. Nowadays they try to keep them as calm and content as possible and make the execution quick and painless. Adrenaline gives meat unsavoury qualities.[/quote]

Ok, now I want a burger for lunch. Mmmm... the taste of happiness. Very Happy

Beatlechick90 · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:01 pm Post subject:

PETA is evil.
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Stratadrake · Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:22 pm Post subject:

PETA and SPCA have [i]some[/i] valid points, but it's always the fringes, causing problems, which gain the most publicity.
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