Angry with anime!

[Cthatya]

Well, here's my two cents about anime.

I loved shows like yugioh, pokemon, now and then here and there, and quite a few others. However, since I have started to become serious about drawing (animation, classical, botanical and some others) anime has long since struck me as annoying. Look at almost all the fanart here. It's anime drawn by twelve and thirteen year olds, teaching themselves to use Japanese proportions and distortions. It's so easy to make a good anime drawing. I used to draw that all the time. And then when I got serious and tried submitting a portfolio to an art institute with several anime drawings, I was flatly refused. They said that if I wanted to anime, I should move immediately to Japan and make sure I could turn out four or five episodes a week. Yeah, I think that's about the average for them. That's why I am PO'd at anime. It's so easy to make it look good, that it practically ruins your skill! Well, when I redid my portfolio, it was like relearning. I had to find my own style and run with it. Anime is so easy to copy. It takes no skill whatsoever. Try drawing bones, real people, animals and animate them. The most you have to do for anime is move the mouth, add a couple of expressions and stiff battle scenes that involve long dialogues and stances. I've seen very few really good animes where people do more fighting than talking. But anime is all about speed. Take Kenshin for example. He gets off a few swings, you hear some noise and you get the idea about the fight. Real fighting (which is insanely difficult) takes way more time and skill.

So there ya have it. Anyone else?

[AngelusMortis]

A lot of people here have told me that anime is an overly simplified and generalized form of art. If you found it easy, it's because you haven't learned anything. You learn more from real life drawings and references than you do with anime. I personally try to stay away from anime because it's not something I want in my own style. I might do it occasionally, depending on the appropriate situation, but I'd try not to draw any images that might be called anime. The anime shows might be fun to watch occasionally, but I have no interest in trying to imitate their styles.

I also suspect that most American art institutes or groups don't really consider anime to be much of art; they're not exactly wrong for thinking that way, but art means different things to different people, and there's not really much you can do about it. However, if they let other cartoonists get away with it, I think they're being hypocrites because technically, anime is a kind of cartoon.

[The_Stef]

If you ask me, there isn't a lot wrong with anime except that it is over popular. "overly simplified form of art" is a bad way of putting it, because not everyone is setting out to draw realism, and I think that people on the internet forget that sometimes. If you go to an art gallery, very little of the stuff is actually realism, and if it is, it is usually landscape paintings rather than portraits. I was at my local art gallery this weekend I most of it was abstract and minimalism - so how can someone say that anime is overly simplified and generalized?

I hate to say it, but most anime that I have seen in galleries here or on deviantart isn't really "art" at all, because, isn't "art" supposed to show passion and emotion? That's why some splatters or vague shapes on a canvas are art but not anime. It's the concept behind the picture, rather than the picture itself. Generally speaking, anime is a picture, not an emotion or idea that is trying to be conveyed through the picture. Especially considering anime seems to be one picture drawn by different people, slightly different variations of pose, expression or outfit. Hardly original.

...That said, I still like anime. >_>

[fallenangel]

It depends on what gallery you're going to. Bergamot Station in Santa Monica has dozens of galleries grouped together, and among them there will be everything from abstract to old masters portraiture.

It's not a matter of people forgetting that not everyone wants to draw realism. It's that people who draw realism...or CAN draw some fashion of it...know how to learn to draw. Learn the rules before you break them, learn to draw something as it is before you stylize it, etc. etc. etc. I guarantee all the anime greats could draw you a decent realistically proportioned person. You don't have to learn to draw photorealistic rendering, just the realistic construction part.

That's why art schools reject anime and why they always teach you life drawing first. When you know how the body looks, you can distort it believably.

This first post should be a must read for anyone who wants to do more than doodle on their math notes, knock some sense into them.
_________________
"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[Squidman]

[quote="AngelusMortis"] However, if they let other cartoonists get away with it, I think they're being hypocrites because technically, anime is a kind of cartoon.[/quote]
Programs that specialize in cartoons typically fown upon anime because they strongly emphasize showing depth and dimension in your drawings, and anime tends to be a very flat, illustrative style.

These are the sort of "cartoonists" that get into art schools;
http://gh-graphics.blogspot.com/
http://darnbrough.blogspot.com/
http://rorymadge.blogspot.com/
http://hodgespartyfunblog.blogspot.com/
Their stuff may be cartoony, but they definately know their anatomy, their styles are flexible, and their stuff is dynamic and shows dimension.

Programs that look for qualities like these will let in artists who draw predominantly with an animeish style, as long as they can prove that their drawings can be just as loose and appealing, like these guys;
http://orenji-kun.deviantart.com/
http://tobiee.deviantart.com/

Problem is, most anime "artists" draw pictures of their cookie-cutter characters in their completely inflexible styles, standing around in generic anime-person poses.

Kind of out of line to go around saying "well why don't art schools let [url=http://yamikdchan.deviantart.com/][u]Person A[/u][/url] in because she draws anime? They let people like [url=http://marksperber.blogspot.com/]P[u]erson B[/u][/url] in and he just draws cartoons all the time too."
_________________
[size=9][color=indigo][img]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Squids/haybaby.jpg[/img]
::[url=http://www.fanart-central.net/user.php?aid=Squidman]FAC[/url]::[url=http://coelasquid.deviantart.com/gallery/]DA[/url]::[url=http://coelasquid.blogspot.com]Blog[/url]::[url=http://pirate-squid.livejournal.com/]LJ[/url]::[/size][/color]

[AngelusMortis]

What I meant by "overly simplified" was in comparison to what you do with realism. Not the abstract stuff.

I'm well aware that some forms of cartoons or anime may lack dimensions or depth in shading. In particular, I'd be referring to those two examples of DA artists that have an anime style of drawing. If they weren't let in just because it might be slightly anime, then they would be hypocrites.

[Stratadrake]

Bill Watterson (the artist behind Calvin & Hobbes) is another good example. [i]Calvin & Hobbes[/i] had a simple, toony visual style, but Watterson had plenty of skill to draw with. I remember a few Sunday strips where he drew characters in the more typical, more realistic cartoon style as part of the day's joke.

As far as the "basics" go . . . is it just me or does the B stand for 'boring'?

Learning can be fun too. The best teachers don't just make students [i]learn[/i], but make them [i]want to[/i] learn. Boring teachers make for boring classes, especially so in high school.

Like the assignment where you draw your own hand. If one student in the class decides to draw his hand giving The Finger... that would certainly be entertaining.
_________________
Strata here: [url=http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/user/242293]Nanowrimo[/url] - [url=www.fanart-central.net/user-Stratadrake.php]FAC[/url] - [url=http://stratadrake.deviantart.com]dA[/url] - [url=www.furaffinity.net/user/Stratadrake/]FA[/url]
[size=9]Disclaimer: Posts may contain URLs. Click [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife]at your own risk.[/url][/size]

[Squidman]

[quote="AngelusMortis"]What I meant by "overly simplified" was in comparison to what you do with realism. Not the abstract stuff.

I'm well aware that some forms of cartoons or anime may lack dimensions or depth in shading. In particular, I'd be referring to those two examples of DA artists that have an anime style of drawing. If they weren't let in just because it might be slightly anime, then they would be hypocrites.[/quote]

I wasn't talking about your "overly simplified" comment at all, just the bit where you said it's hypocritical to let in cartoonists but not anime artists. Every single peron I linked to in my last post is someone I know in the animation program that Im currently enrolled in, save that last DA link (I know her, but she isn't in animation). I was saying that cartoonists only get in if they show originality and an understanding of dimension, and the exact same thing applies to people who primarily draw anime-styled stuff. No hypocricy there.

It just seems to be more likely that people can do that if they've cultivated their own style, rather than spending their days trying to draw fish-eyed pseudo~yu-gi-oh characters.
_________________
[size=9][color=indigo][img]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Squids/haybaby.jpg[/img]
::[url=http://www.fanart-central.net/user.php?aid=Squidman]FAC[/url]::[url=http://coelasquid.deviantart.com/gallery/]DA[/url]::[url=http://coelasquid.blogspot.com]Blog[/url]::[url=http://pirate-squid.livejournal.com/]LJ[/url]::[/size][/color]

[AngelusMortis]

Yes, well I see what you guys mean when you say there's no depth to copying anime, since it is simplified. You've only learned how to copy an oversimplified version of someone's artwork, and since it has no depth, you haven't learned anything.

And that first comment I made was directed towards the poster above you. Sorry for the confusion.

[OMNI-X]

[quote="Cthatya"]Well, here's my two cents about anime.

I loved shows like yugioh, pokemon, now and then here and there, and quite a few others. However, since I have started to become serious about drawing (animation, classical, botanical and some others) anime has long since struck me as annoying. Look at almost all the fanart here. It's anime drawn by twelve and thirteen year olds, teaching themselves to use Japanese proportions and distortions. It's so easy to make a good anime drawing. I used to draw that all the time. And then when I got serious and tried submitting a portfolio to an art institute with several anime drawings, I was flatly refused. They said that if I wanted to anime, I should move immediately to Japan and make sure I could turn out four or five episodes a week. Yeah, I think that's about the average for them. That's why I am PO'd at anime. It's so easy to make it look good, that it practically ruins your skill! Well, when I redid my portfolio, it was like relearning. I had to find my own style and run with it. Anime is so easy to copy. It takes no skill whatsoever. Try drawing bones, real people, animals and animate them. The most you have to do for anime is move the mouth, add a couple of expressions and stiff battle scenes that involve long dialogues and stances. I've seen very few really good animes where people do more fighting than talking. But anime is all about speed. Take Kenshin for example. He gets off a few swings, you hear some noise and you get the idea about the fight. Real fighting (which is insanely difficult) takes way more time and skill.

So there ya have it. Anyone else?[/quote]

Dude... did I hear you right?

You created a portfolio based on anime style art, got turned down from an art institute, and now you're Pissed Off at anime?

Seriously dude, you should first consider WHO did the artwork, and HOW the artwork was done and presented. Don't blame your failure on a medium that has no control over you or whatever comes out from your hands.

Do you really think it's the fault of Anime/Manga style art that you got turned down? Or would you consider the possibility that you're to blame?

You've got some misdirected anger there bud.

[AngelusMortis]

Well, if it was cartooning in general, you could apply the same thing. It's entirely possible to create cartoon styled drawings with no dynamics, dimension or depth as well. Which would probably be rejected like any other anime piece without dynamics, dimension or depth.

[Squidman]

If you're applying to a program that specifically requests you include cartoons in your portfolio, anime will most likely get you turned down. No matter how good you are with the style, it is damned near impossible to make an anime character look alive on a flat turnaround sheet. Same thing if you tried sumbitting say, a Marvel or DC styled character. At the time I did my portfolio my own default style was more like a wannabe-Western comic book one, but even I knew there was no way in hell something drawn like that was going to get me into an animation program.

Conversely, if you're applying to a program that [i]doesn't[/i] request cartoons, stuffing your portfolio with them is pretty much a death sentance no matter what style you draw them in.
_________________
[size=9][color=indigo][img]http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/Squids/haybaby.jpg[/img]
::[url=http://www.fanart-central.net/user.php?aid=Squidman]FAC[/url]::[url=http://coelasquid.deviantart.com/gallery/]DA[/url]::[url=http://coelasquid.blogspot.com]Blog[/url]::[url=http://pirate-squid.livejournal.com/]LJ[/url]::[/size][/color]

[Kes]

It depends on the way YOU draw it because I've seen a lot that have put their own personal style into it and it can help make some of the characters look more alive, not good if all it is is the same style done over and over.
I got into university and had some little anime in my portfolio, so you can't blame for having some in your portfolio for not getting you in.
But even though I still like doing the style for fun over the years I still work on and get class' on doing other styles and types of 'art'. I personally find it better not to do just one type of 'art' and do what you like. Plus found that after time I got my own style that keeps developing in these different types.
But then again mines Illustration, it can also depend on what type of course you were going after.
_________________
http://www.fanart-central.net/profile-Kes.php- Profile.
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/653727/ -FF.net

[Brianhjh]

lolwut

http://www.fanart-central.net/pic-565537.html


Just what did you make your portfolio out of?
_________________
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Brianhjh/emesprani151.gif[/img] "Sarah's future makes me sad." - Benk

[fallenangel]

Getting into university in general isn't the same as getting into art college. Although I only know of one particular art school in the UK. But I'm pretty sure they don't allow anime either. None of the ones in the US do (except the AI chain ).
_________________
"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[Kes]

I'm at a art and design college thats ran by other university's and runs on different rules to regular universities. It's main art subject/type that it's good for is Illustration, other universties specialise on others. It's one of few I've heard that does Sequential Illustration, comic book art
Anime and manga is accepted but not to be used as a main style of drawing and students have to know other types and learn different cartoon/art styles and types.
But then again every college/uni does have different rules and your art colleges/schools do run things differently and have heard many say they don't accept it.
_________________
http://www.fanart-central.net/profile-Kes.php- Profile.
http://www.fanfiction.net/u/653727/ -FF.net

[Stratadrake]

And a lot of dedicated art colleges are structured towards producing [i]fine art[/i]. Still lifes, portraiture, nature scenes, the kind of stuff that your average brick-and-mortar is already full of.
_________________
Strata here: [url=http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/user/242293]Nanowrimo[/url] - [url=www.fanart-central.net/user-Stratadrake.php]FAC[/url] - [url=http://stratadrake.deviantart.com]dA[/url] - [url=www.furaffinity.net/user/Stratadrake/]FA[/url]
[size=9]Disclaimer: Posts may contain URLs. Click [url=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TVTropesWillRuinYourLife]at your own risk.[/url][/size]

[fallenangel]

Actually most are geared towards design. Unless you're looking at liberal arts colleges.
_________________
"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[Edward_Elric_1308]

Yeah, that happens to me, too. I'll try to draw like a portrait, and it comes out anime-like. Especially with the eyes.

[com50l]

Can i just something to you Cthatya.
Shows like Yugioh and Pokemon are not Anime's there Cartoons.
Anime is more complexe then a simple cartoon