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Only people who don't UNDERSTAND art would say this:
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AmayaHayate
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:26 pm    Post subject: Only people who don't UNDERSTAND art would say this: Reply with quote

"Aren't you a little too old to be into anime?"

So, what then? Art is just a bunch of boring oceans and mountain paintings, or stuff like what Picasso did? Or random vases with flowers, or "tasteful" black and white nudes staring at the floor? Or, my favorite - [i]still life[/i] with the gentle old man taken from a photograph and then translated into charcoal, giving a dog a biscuit! --That's art to the person judging, but I have my own way of viewing things, here. If you're like me, you can see into other people's art whether it's the style you do it in or not, and be able to see mystery of the human mind without judging the media or what's in it.

People have the wrong impression on what art is - well, duh, those things up there are art, but art is not a thing defined by just paintings and what people accept - it's not just a style, art is from the person who did it! Art is a person's inner story, and I didn't find out what that truly meant until I looked into the meaning for myself - I experienced just a taste of it not too long ago, so I'm flustered enough to bring it up now. Why create something in your style only to have other people think you're being childish, and then have them tell you it's wrong and that you should change your art into the above mentioned??? What's the point of doing art if you can't do it the way you intended? Would you do any art at all if you had to censor?

I'm fine with the style of anime. I generated my own personal theme within that style. I like anime because of the expressions, the emotion in the general theme. Even children's anime is full of emotion if you haven't noticed, whereas western animation directed at kids is all about dominance and beating the $hit out of each other while celebrating their victory at the end. This 'cartoon' thing seems to make people think that anime is the same. It's not. There's violence in Anime usually at an even greater extent than in cartoons, yet the emotion drives the story and makes you actually care about the characters - even Dragonball has at least some substance to it, and it's a pretty bad anime. Anime is actually something that tells a story on morals and viewpoints in life. It just happens to be colorful and the pictures move. So again, what's so childish about anime? Is painting a still-life child without a face picking flowers in the meadow somehow more mature than anime?

No - it has nothing to do with maturity. Maturity has nothing to do with age. Being mature means you can handle something without reacting - and even liking it, whether it's gory violence, or the most outrageous fetish involving your puppy. You're mature when you can see beauty in even your own good neighbor dying. That is maturity - maturity is not judging for any reason - tolerance, acceptance. Know what that means? A person who gawks at how you like anime is the immature one, not you! Ironic, huh?

Is creating your very own characters which you've placed heavy emotional attachment in, in the style of anime and then sending him off to get him copyrighted, childish? I love my stuff so much that I went out of my way to get my characters copyrighted. I'm glad I did because they're my very reason for art.

The point is, is if there's anyone reading this, don't let anyone tell you you should change your art just because they don't think it's appropriate. Whether it's objectionable, even downright immoral by American standards, even if it's art based off explicit human torture of a child - art is art, art is just one thing in life you can be mature over. Art is done for one universal reason. Because we're human beings. We do those things. Things that come out in art are in our very human nature. To censor is like telling someone to shut up and not say what's on their mind, or to tell a person they've been doing it wrong all along, while in the artist's mind, even in his way of life, he knew and trusted what he was doing was true. So keep doing your art, whatever it might be. The fact is is I LOVE seeing other people's art. It inspires me so much that I actually get excited to go to museums or art galleries, I get excited to show people my art and make them wonder about myself, who I am as a human being. The fact of life is is even though I can't get anyone to agree with me, and the world just isn't ready to accept anything, I can still keep this moral of my own with me because it's true to me, and I can still teach it because people who want to hear this aren't close minded.

What really is the difference between a human painted in acrylic and a stylized human with big eyes? Both are art.
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fallenangel
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't change the fact the anime style is still a ridiculously high profile pop culture fad at the moment, and most of the people drawing it are doing nothing but poor knock offs because of its popularity.
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AmayaHayate
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why do you suppose it's so popular, though? I personally liked it before I realized a lot of other people did.
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Kitzy
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anime isn't art, though. It's animation for the purpose of entertainment.

Now, if you did a picture that was more than a sketch, yeah, it's art.


The only animation I even consider to be art are the Canadian Film Board animations and some select Disney classics.


I personally don't find anime to be very appealing looking art anymore. I did, but then I started learning more about better, more efficient and appealing art styles and I strode away from anime. It's personal taste.

Some people consider sculptures made out of dead animals art, some don't. It's all perspective.
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fallenangel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]Why do you suppose it's so popular, though?[/quote]

Because a select number of shows were put on popular american television channels, and a large percentage of people only like what they're told to like, whether they'll realize and admit it or not.
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AmayaHayate
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But why would you have such a negative viewpoint on it? There weren't any particular anime shows I liked before I designed my own characters in anime-style. I just liked the style. But whether you like it or not, it's out there and it's a permanent part of culture. Anime will never go away, but it'll die in popularity eventually like all fads.

Like what they're told to like? People will choose what they like and what they don't like. As a kid, I was exposed to plenty of violent movies, cartoons, videogames, but what did I choose to keep? Anime style. It appealed to me, not the anime shows. I liked more videogames and disney movies than anime - I hated most shows at the time I created my characters. Everything we create whether you believe in it or not is art. A sitcom is art - it may be to gain attention, but it's still art. Dancing is art, being alive is art, a tree is art, a trashed house is art, a person's voice is art, a script is art, a handshake is art, and the very act of being memorized by all these hidden beauties is art. It's purpose can be either positive or negative, but everyone has a different way of seeing that. I choose to see the good side in things. I don't feel like getting angry at something silly as why anime is so popular, and it wasn't because I was brainwashed. Angry people focus on what's wrong with things, only making things worse. Positive creates positive, negative breeds negative. You can feel that way if you choose.

So - if I wanted to show everybody the story that goes along with my characters' lives rather than just drawing or writing about them, I would pick anime style. Now, say this gets animated, hypothetically. Would you be angry for my anime, be it a movie or seires just because you think it's a brainwashing scheme? For showing everybody what I created in colorful, moving pictures in the style of anime instead of literature or a drawing? Some animes out there are from people who had a story to tell. Maybe they did want to gain popularity for monetary purposes, but why do you think they wrote the story or manga to begin with? Why do you think people like me start by doing basic art, and then want other people to see what they've created? From a personal standpoint, I just want to show everyone what I made. I want to show my story animated. That is a personal goal of mine.

For the sake of entertainment - what do you call a play? Drama, acting, a director following a script is performing a work of art. Whether it's on a stage or on a screen, it doesn't matter what media it's in. Whatever way, if you look at the big picture in life, you'll realize how much art the world is. It's all what you make out of it. It's a subconscious thing: some people are able to see it and create it, and some people don't see it in their creations. The very act of breathing is art. You just have to see the beauty and intention behind it.
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AngelusMortis
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art to me is a form of expression in which you express yourself and your thoughts. I suppose style is something you pick up or create yourself, but people shouldn't be picking on the fact that you're drawing pictures in an anime style; if the same thing could be achieved with realism, cartoons or a different style. Perhaps it's unique to you, or it's how you learned to draw. Art has become so loosely defined. I can't look at an abstract piece of work and say that I'm looking at a piece of artwork, yet it is somehow considered art. I suppose photography is art in some sense as well, but I can't look at it seriously, and say, someone made that picture. A machine made it. If a mere brush stroke of abstract art can be considered art, I can't see why anime couldn't be. It could also be said that animation is a kind of art, just not the same as abstraction, not the same as sketching, CGing or realism.

Art means different things to different people.
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fallenangel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I couldn't be bothered to read more than the first part of all that.

Anime is a flawed style. When it's done well, there's nothing wrong with it. However, you CANNOT start by drawing anime because you have to understand what you're doing. You have to draw something as it actually is before you simplify it. Otherwise it will just look poorly done. Most kids who draw anime do a poor job of it because they're simply copying the style they like without understanding what it even is.

Bottom line is, if you want to get some kind of point across, you have to acknowledge how it will be perceived by an audience. If you draw a cute little anime character and want it to represent sorrow or horror...sorry, it's just not going to happen because the majority of your audience is going to interpret the image as cheap and cute. You can't just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore that. Or I suppose you can, but your art will be a miserable failure.

The manga style is perceived as childish because it LOOKS childish. Big eyes, simplified features, big heads...those are things associated with youth. Like babies and puppies and kittens.

And people dislike anime because so many people jump right to drawing it without understanding drawing from observation first. So their art is just crappy.
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Stratadrake
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote]But why would you have such a negative viewpoint on it?[/quote]
Fallen has a negative viewpoint on EVERYTHING. Better get used to it. Sad

[quote]Like what they're told to like? People will choose what they like and what they don't like.[/quote]
Fallen points out that, because a lot of anime never makes it to U.S. shores, casual anime fans have a limited selection, the choices of which are based primarily on which ones the networks thought would fare well on this side of the Pacific. Anime which stays on Japanese shores will not attract the huge crowds of kids who watch Saturday morning cartoons.

[quote]rt has become so loosely defined. I can't look at an abstract piece of work and say that I'm looking at a piece of artwork, yet it is somehow considered art.[/quote]
Loosely and broadly defined, and open to much interpretation. Fine art majors will insist that only "Fine Art" is the only thing worth calling "art" to begin with, but another person will make "art" out of a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fountain_%28Duchamp%29][u]urinal[/u][/url], a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artist%27s_shit][u]can of poop[/u][/url], or a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Creed][u]blinking light[/u][/url]. By its broadest definition, "art" is there to [i]communicate something[/i] from the creator to the viewer . . . though the viewer may not determine exactly what.
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fallenangel
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not really. People on FAC just happen to like talking about a lot of crap.

And my threads in the tv forum are made of glee.
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Lennex3
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2007 9:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

who cares, if drawing anime makes you happy, then by God you shall draw anime. As for saying anime is not art simply, look up the definition of anime ( a style of animation originating in Japan that is characterized by stark colorful graphics depicting vibrant characters in action-filled plots often with fantastic or futuristic themes ) that seems pretty artistic to me, espically when anything (and i mean anything) can be considered art, weather it be on a piece of paper or on a screen. It all boils down to personal preference. chin up, dont let someone elses snide remark like "arent you a little to old too be into anime" get u down... im 19 and i still luv it Very Happy
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AriaGunnir
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 8:36 pm    Post subject: Yep... Philosophy... Reply with quote

My intepretation of what the author of the thread lamented was, when someone says "AREN'T YOU A LITTLE BIT TOO OLD TO DRAW ANIME?" [color=blue]>>>>>>>>>>it is because the person saying that doesn't think that drawing Anime is relevant and they think Anime is not a "serious" or "Fine Art" or worth drawing.<<<<<<<<<<[/color]

I am not sure how my statements are obnoxious or irrelevent, I am not sure how I came across as a know-it-all, I am annoyed because I wasn't even talking to her and she attacked me. I am bewildered that she calls me these names and accuses me of thinking I am an expert.

What I originally was trying to do was poke fun of several of the different Art philosophies (and it has been over a decade since I was in those classes so pardon me if I didn't remember EXACTLY what I was taught), make a bit of a joke about, but I was attacked for it because it was deemed "snobby." I was merely trying to take part in a conversation and thought I was contributing by explaining about people's perception and definitions of "art" that I learned about. It isn't stuff I pulled out of my arse and am trying to force-feed anyone.

To jump down someone's throat because you completely miss their point about what they were saying seems about as narrow-minded and rude as saying that what someone does isn't art just because it's popular or "just because."
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AngelusMortis
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Art has become so subjective that it cannot be well defined. I guess I'd go with the Aestheticists definition of art best, but if someone considers abstraction to be art, then I wouldn't call them wrong for believing so. As long as I'm allowed to believe that it isn't art and they can believe it is, then I don't have a problem with that. Similarly, you may consider anime to be art, but that doesn't mean other people have to. The least you can do is respect the fact that they don't treat anime as art, and if you do, perhaps you can share your respect for it with others who also treat anime is art.
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fallenangel
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two very fine examples of the obnoxious fine artist attitude that throws out a bunch of names and period buzz words to avoid addressing the initial issue.

Yes, Duchamp's found objects and ready mades were a response to the idea of institutionalized art. Does that have anything to do with being too old to draw anime? Not at all. The problem with all those names given is that they are exceptions, revolutionaries, leaders/most notable members of new movements. By that logic, only the most prominent Japanese artists are worthy of drawing anime. Not everyone who screenprinted a celebrity picture was Andy Warhol.

The problem with comparing anime to pop artists is that you neglect to take into account one of the key aspects of their work. It was in a gallery. That was the point. Andy Warhol stacked up grocery boxes and displayed them in a museum. If they were on a street corner, it's just garbage. The context is the point. Same goes for Lichtenstein. The [i]comics[/i] were not the fine art, taking the style and using it in a piece [i]in a gallery[/i] was. Duchamp put his ready mades in galleries and called it art. The Fountain is still just a urinal outside the gallery. Assaults to the White Cube theory are not at all related to someone drawing anime.

If a current artist was to make a huge piece in anime style and display it at MOMA, then sure you can make that comparison. Until then, not a valid argument.
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AriaGunnir
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:33 pm    Post subject: Good Grief Reply with quote

*sigh*

Whatever... Just wanted to say that some people have a narrow mind because they either lack imagination or experience. It all stems from different philosophies and beliefs. It shouldn't bother you because they don't know what they are talking about except their perceptions.

Perceptions are subjective.

Let them think what they want and don't sweat it. Think what you want, do what you want, and don't fret about people who don't understand.

You don't have to be a revolutionary, you don't have to have your drawings in an institution like an art gallery. You can show it any time, anywhere, such as on this FORUM and on your website. There's "virtually" nothing more accessible than the internet. The only problem with unlimited accessibility is that you get negative along with the positive. That's life.

And Fallen, you'll probably find something about that to pick apart, too, but after this I am ending this transmission/no longer being alerted to this thread. Just wanted to blather as much as anyone else in this thread and lend support to AmayaHayate, 'cause I can empathize, so if that's something worth attacking for you, have another go, if that's how you get your kicks.
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fallenangel
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What, were you expecting everyone to bow before your knowledge of key 20th century figures?

Don't put it out there if you can't defend your statements.

You listed a bunch of buzz words that were completely unrelated but sounded fancy, and I called you on them. And apparently you have no response. Fine. I don't "get my kicks" from it, but I'm also not going to let someone get away with using Warhol and Duchamp as justification for the anime style. Rolling Eyes

One art philosophy class and everyone thinks they're an expert...
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Stratadrake
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 8:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I took Art History in college, and I can't remember even half of the lectures we went through or the points there were.
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AngelusMortis
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 1:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps people consider it as art when it's placed in an art gallery and they try to think of why it would be art--if it's in an art gallery, it [i]must[/i] be art--otherwise, what the hell is it doing there?

But with online art galleries, they have their own criterias for what art is and isn't. This is usually based on the owner's perception of what art is, and what it isn't. But thankfully, with the Internet, you're allowed to make your own art gallery or pay for your own server and make people think it's art by calling it as such.
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fallenangel
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which still has nothing to do with being [i]too old to draw anime[/i].
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thedudedisturbed
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2007 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

an answer to the thread..

no your not too old to old to draw anime, but you may be too old to draw anime exclusively, if you want to make a living from drawing, painting etc, etc, you need to expand and understand more styles and teqniques.

otherwise, ignore what everyone else says, and do what you love.
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