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What/who is god?
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London
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My scrollbar should not be this tiny.



Understand that empiricists will become frustrated when they ask a religious person how they know they're right, and the answer they get is "because it feels right." As far as anyone can see, there is no proof whatsoever that the world formed as stated in the Bible, and there is nothing that makes your religion better or more correct than anyone else's religion.

If you say there is proof, then tell me what it is, don't point me towards a book or a website or a youtube video (LOOKING AT YOU, THROTTLE).

You may say that you can believe what you want, but the thing is, I don't want to believe what I want. I want to believe what is right. Not "right" as in morally right, but right as in factually correct.



And you may wonder why we care so much if what you believe doesn't affect us, but, get this, it does affect us. I don't like your factually inaccurate beliefs on my money or in my pledges or in my textbooks. I don't want to waste time and I don't want my children to waste time studying something that has no factual basis and is, therefore, totally useless. I don't want your ideals of what's moral and what's not moral governing what I can do and what I can't do, so don't tell me that what you believe shouldn't be of concern to me.

Needs moar longcat.
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AnimeLover4ever
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 6:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rlkitten wrote:
And AnimeLover4Ever, no offense, but you might not want to try and advertise books or, in other words, try to get people to buy/read them. Society doesn't like that, and you'll only end up getting angry about why they aren't understanding. People don't see things the exact same way you do- I'm sorry Sad If the world was like that, there'd only be one religion. Society really, sadly- like Selphius said, doesn't care most of the time. Sorry....


I was just hoping that they would actually listen to someone that was an athiest like them, but obviously that's not going to happen. Good luck with them, kitten. I'm sick of this. There's no point when it gets to be like this. They obviously aren't listening to me. I'll be praying for them though.
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ThomYorke
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Instead of making us read a book tell us yourself
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ThomYorke
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rqUsC2KsiI
Hey, watch it if you want. If not I'll write it out for you.
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thedudedisturbed
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

irk

"the Bible says" isn't the only argument.
is that the only one anyone confronts? i didn't read all the posts, but i read so many atheist arguments, and as far as i can remember they only confront that one. give me something about the flood and the grand canyon.
i also heard carbon dating is unreliable, so wtf's up with that?
granted, it is theists arguing, but i can't fucking tell for myself who's lying.


its so irritating

my christian philosophy when im feelin christiany, that is based on my knowledge of Bible and my spiritual education. - without faith, there's no point to the arbitrary rules, so we can't just go around proving things all willy nilly. its up to each individual to accept or go to hell, and then try to pass it on to others, in a zealous, but nonviolent manner. but there are some people who like to think that they can just go around being douchebags toward non christians. these are not good christians. babies go to heaven if they die that early (kindergarten teacher at private school says, though my pastor points out that the Bible mentions no children in heaven, but I imagine, if that judeo christian theism is correct, that god has predetermined these kinds of things, and has arranged things accordingly. not so much the random creation and passing of souls, but happenings in the lives of already existing souls.) god is angry and destroys in the old testament, but that is before christ, and sins have not been paid for in blood yet. you sin and don't sacrifice and do the best you can=fire from the sky. but now we have christ and we reach him through prayer.


moar would be waaay too long.
input the supposedlys where you know they ought to go, and I apologize for typos.
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Selphius
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 8:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does everyone think I'm atheist?
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ThomYorke
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shit I didn't say that D:
Wait I don't get what Disturbed's argument was?
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jhonenfreak
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

God's what ever the individual wants it to be, whether or not the term "god" is even used. God is like art, in that aspect. It's all in the individual's perspective. Some say God is a vengeful man with a beard and a booming voice who resides in Heaven to smite all the sinful humans below, others believe that God is Mother Nature and Father Time combined. Some just believe that God is that variable "x" in the big question of how things happen. As soon as we discover something, that part of "x" is solved, and God remains the answer to all the other unanswered questions.
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thedudedisturbed
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThomYorke wrote:
s**t I didn't say that D:
Wait I don't get what Disturbed's argument was?


eh, im not sure what i said really pertained to anything.
im nawt gud at arguin
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PhilTheFreak
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now I've only gotten the jist of this conversation by reading the first and last page, more like skimming, but there's really only one thing I can say... GET OVER YOURSELVES! And you people wonder why the world hates christians? You people have gone from helping people and sticking to morals to a fricken cult trying to convert the world! Does it really matter what religion people believe in? As long as they have good morals and peace of mind. Isn't that what your god tries to teach people?
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thedudedisturbed
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PhilTheFreak wrote:
Now I've only gotten the jist of this conversation by reading the first and last page, more like skimming, but there's really only one thing I can say... GET OVER YOURSELVES! And you people wonder why the world hates christians? You people have gone from helping people and sticking to morals to a fricken cult trying to convert the world! Does it really matter what religion people believe in? As long as they have good morals and peace of mind. Isn't that what your god tries to teach people?


GOOD christians don't hate on other religions, they just try to convert people out of concern for the souls of others. Jesus wants christians to spread the word. so yes, we are trying to convert the world, its just that some don't go about it properly. God is teaching OBEDIENCE, not just good morals.

k?
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NorseGodOdin
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

God is a faith based being. So none of us have a reason to believe in Him.

You can't prove that which leaves no evidence behind it.
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Emrys
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I don't understand is why people from the US would base their life off of something written in the middle east... Do you actually think that the isrealites are god's chosen people? now do you view yourself as god's chosen religion just because you're christian? You're not isrealite so get a grip!

The bible is a book written to compile all the religious writings of the 3rd century so that one man could rule with religion at his back and then use the name of that religion to kill off anyone and everyone that opposed him.

*rollz eyez*

The most common version of your holy book (interjects sarcasm) was written in 1604 by King James to withdraw from the Roman Catholic church just so he could divorce his wife and have her beheaded. And this is your book of religion!!?
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NorseGodOdin
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Emrys wrote:
What I don't understand is why people from the US would base their life off of something written in the middle east... Do you actually think that the isrealites are god's chosen people? now do you view yourself as god's chosen religion just because you're christian? You're not isrealite so get a grip!

The bible is a book written to compile all the religious writings of the 3rd century so that one man could rule with religion at his back and then use the name of that religion to kill off anyone and everyone that opposed him.

*rollz eyez*

The most common version of your holy book (interjects sarcasm) was written in 1604 by King James to withdraw from the Roman Catholic church just so he could divorce his wife and have her beheaded. And this is your book of religion!!?


So that's why you're a pagan druid!
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SilverKitsune
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedudedisturbed wrote:
PhilTheFreak wrote:
Now I've only gotten the jist of this conversation by reading the first and last page, more like skimming, but there's really only one thing I can say... GET OVER YOURSELVES! And you people wonder why the world hates christians? You people have gone from helping people and sticking to morals to a fricken cult trying to convert the world! Does it really matter what religion people believe in? As long as they have good morals and peace of mind. Isn't that what your god tries to teach people?


GOOD christians don't hate on other religions, they just try to convert people out of concern for the souls of others. Jesus wants christians to spread the word. so yes, we are trying to convert the world, its just that some don't go about it properly. God is teaching OBEDIENCE, not just good morals.

k?


No, A good christian would respect the others religion because the christian should know that his "god" is forgiving (and if he exists and if there is a heaven he will forgive them for choosing wrong). Christians are very hateful and all they do is judge they may not speak it out sometimes, but they may think it or aviod it at all costs. "Being gay is bbaddd cause its not normal" "being gay is a choice" both assumptions are wrong, hateful, and the fact that followers of god are judging for him, is wrong.

The thing I hate the most is that the government is basically side by side with religion, not everyones religion combined but christianity. They are basing laws which should not be made and putting "god" in their speeches. Not only that, but once a president (in the running) states he's a heavy follower of "god", guess who just got some votes himself? Not to mention if he is pro-ignorant towards a certain persons? More votes. They need to separate government and church, People dont need church in their government to know whats right.
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SilverKitsune
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Selphius wrote:
Why does everyone think I'm atheist?


Because if you don't believe in jesus you are obviously atheist (even though there are so many other religions you can be).


Lol, but yeah you get what im sayin~
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thedudedisturbed
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

SilverKitsune wrote:

No, A good christian would respect the others religion because the christian should know that his "god" is forgiving (and if he exists and if there is a heaven he will forgive them for choosing wrong). Christians are very hateful and all they do is judge they may not speak it out sometimes, but they may think it or aviod it at all costs. "Being gay is bbaddd cause its not normal" "being gay is a choice" both assumptions are wrong, hateful, and the fact that followers of god are judging for him, is wrong.

The thing I hate the most is that the government is basically side by side with religion, not everyones religion combined but christianity. They are basing laws which should not be made and putting "god" in their speeches. Not only that, but once a president (in the running) states he's a heavy follower of "god", guess who just got some votes himself? Not to mention if he is pro-ignorant towards a certain persons? More votes. They need to separate government and church, People dont need church in their government to know whats right.


NO, as a Christian, I would respect their religion, but try to convert them. not in a crazed "I'll burn you at the stake heretic!" kind of way, but I would minister, and try. God is forgiving, but if you don't believe, then you're not going to heaven. so christians minister, so others get to go to heaven too.
christains are told to avoid sin, but be kind to everyone. some christians fail at this though.

everyone judges. everyone. no exceptions.
the vast majority of people on the earth are hateful to someone. you're being hateful by telling me all Christians are hateful. that's about as ignorant as "it's wrong because it's different".



[/b]
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thedudedisturbed
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

double gayness hurrayz
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SilverKitsune
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thedudedisturbed wrote:


NO, as a Christian, I would respect their religion, but try to convert them. not in a crazed "I'll burn you at the stake heretic!" kind of way, but I would minister, and try. God is forgiving, but if you don't believe, then you're not going to heaven. so christians minister, so others get to go to heaven too.
christains are told to avoid sin, but be kind to everyone. some christians fail at this though.

everyone judges. everyone. no exceptions.
the vast majority of people on the earth are hateful to someone. you're being hateful by telling me all Christians are hateful. that's about as ignorant as "it's wrong because it's different".




And you are saying that being something other than christian is bad because its different, you are in the same boat. I think its wrong to take away something that someone believes in, its not your life so who are you to mess up someones life just because they believe in a different religion? There is not proof that shows that 'god' exsist, so you can't be right for sure, no one can. Have you ever thought that its possible that you're religion was wrong? There are many out there and I know that the only excuse most have is that 'it just feels right' well, for other people that is how they feel about their religion. You don't see me preaching to people and trying to take away their right to believe what they will simply because they believe something different, but you do. You do realize that in order to respect someones opinion or belief, you can not force your belief on them or tell them what they belief is wrong, that is disrespectful to the person.
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thedudedisturbed
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SilverKitsune wrote:

And you are saying that being something other than christian is bad because its different, you are in the same boat. I think its wrong to take away something that someone believes in, its not your life so who are you to mess up someones life just because they believe in a different religion? There is not proof that shows that 'god' exsist, so you can't be right for sure, no one can. Have you ever thought that its possible that you're religion was wrong? There are many out there and I know that the only excuse most have is that 'it just feels right' well, for other people that is how they feel about their religion. You don't see me preaching to people and trying to take away their right to believe what they will simply because they believe something different, but you do. You do realize that in order to respect someones opinion or belief, you can not force your belief on them or tell them what they belief is wrong, that is disrespectful to the person.


OHMYGOD
well yeah, on some level, it IS bad because it is different. its a deviation from God's arbitrary and unreasonable rules.

It's not messing up their life and I would do it because I believed that it would benefit them.not physically, but spiritually. and yes, I doubt the Christian religion, very much, so much so, that I don't exactly believe, I don't HAVE a religion/faith or whatever. I'm just trying to explain the Christian philosophy, because I'm seeing way too many generalizations and misunderstandings. I wouldn't to force any beliefs down anyone's throat, I'd be tellin them my story, why i elieve what I believe, that's the way one does it.
respecting someone's religion is honoring their beliefs, and not deliberately offending them by "sinning" in front of them.
as for whether or not Christianity is right, and wheher or not God is real, the answer is , I have no idea. the whole concept of christianity is based on faith. If we knew God were real, i mean then...what's the point? of all this? He wants obedience based on love and Faith, not just fear cause we know he gonna strike us down.
and you are being almost exactly like these christians you describe. you're not trying to force a particular religion down my throat, but you are zealously trying to convince me that all christians are evil people and christianity is wrong.
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