why must i submit everything 15 times?

eirhjien · Newb Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 2

i know i should sound proffesional, but no, why does your site suck so badly?

every time i submit something i have to waste time with rejections such as

"we beleive art belong in _____ series not _____ series"
A. if you want it in another catagory, PUT IT IN THE CATAGORY, dont make me resubmit for a minor detail. B. maybe I'm in the right series and you don;t know what the hell your talking about?

"we believe _____ should have mild/ explicit nudity warning"
A. again, just put the warning on then, dont make me re-submit. B. if someones completely clothed it not mild nudity. C. showing breast is not explicit, it's pg-13.

i know it sounds like im bitching, but why would anyone want to waste time loading up this slow to begin with site, just to redo something minor that could have been taken care of on your end?

London · Moderator Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 6474

Because the people who process most of the submissions don't have the power to do that, oddly.
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Stratadrake · Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 6:00 am Post subject:

[quote="London"]Because the people who process most of the submissions don't have the power to do that, oddly.[/quote]
S'truth, actually. Approval staff are not technically authorized to make [i]any[/i] adjustments to a submission (no matter how minor). They simply give it a once-over and 'approve' or 'reject'.

This is already a known complaint / design flaw about the approval system, so in the future (hopefully as soon as the next update) AP staff will be authorized to make these sorts of minor corrections. Not quite sure how to implement it yet....
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eirhjien · Newb Joined: 27 Dec 2008 Posts: 2

i guess the other prob while were at it is this.
previously i submited a picture more explicted then the one in question, marked it as moderate, got through no prob. now the pg13 one doesnt get the pass? Do i have to guess what the random person reveiwing my image deems appropriate? I don't know what your morals are.

The worst is, I"VE FIXED the errors on previous submissions, then still get rejected, only with out an reason attached? what's up with that one?

London · Moderator Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 6474

It's because the site sucks so badly.

Which pictures were rejected without a reason? I only see four rejected pictures, and all of them have reasons.

You can see your rejected pictures at http://www.fanart-central.net/user.submissions.php by selecting rejected pictures in the drop menu.

Actually I noticed one of the rejections should have said Games (129) > Final Fantasy series (133) > Final Fantasy 8 (219) > Squall (202) instead of Games (129) > Final Fantasy series (133) > Final Fantasy 8 (219).

If you meant the Squall or Buttercup pictures don't have uhh official rejection messages, I didn't bother to include them since I felt it was obvious from what I wrote that they were in the wrong category.
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Battou · Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:34 am Post subject:

I'm sorry, I believe it is the users job to get the form correct.

This site is run entirely by volunteer efforts, when some one gets board with site operation tasks they don't get done and we have staff leave or become otherwise inactive. This results in even further delays....No One is processing support mail, No one is processing abuse reports, No one is processing the APQ, why? because the people who where supposed to process these things got tired of processing things and stop all together. Being as they are volunteer, we don't exactly have the right to say get to work now. All we can do is take away their mod access, which accomplished nothing. Believe it or not, it only takes one person to walk away to throw this entire site into the litter box, I have seen it happen three times now. The APQ is the biggest culprit and also the heaviest hit. People walk out on the APQ and the processing times jump from eight to ten hours to forty eight to seventy two hours, and that I'll tell ya results in a lot of bitching by users.

Now, if you go and start piling even more tasks to a particular staff action the odds of staff quitting only get higher. Finding people to replace those who quit is no easy task either. Sure there are always people who want any given title on a web site, but more often than not all they want is the title, not the responsibility associated with it. That said maintaining working staff is vital and there are two ways to do that:

One:
the best way to maintain the voluntary working staff is to keep position requirements to a bare minimum

Or

Two:
the best way to maintain the working staff is to pay people to do the work and charge the end user to cover the overhead.

So the question is, what is it that you really want?

Do you want to have to pay the site staff to do a ton of minor tasks?

Or

Do you want to continue to have a free place to put your work but increase the risk of not getting processed at all?

Or

Do you want to continue to have a free place to put your work and be held responsible to fix your own minor errors?

In the months of January and February there where 1102 submissions rejected, it is safe to say prolly a little over half where minor submission form errors, That translates out to five hundred some odd additional actions needing to be made by the most pivotal site staff and January and February and March are slow months. We are coming up on our first heavy season with an inexperienced APQ staff. So right now I am a little more concerned with keeping the current staff than negotiating more labor.

All in all the submission system we have here is actually fairly easy, and the approval processes primary focus is to acclimate new users to site systems with a secondary function to filter out art theft and other abuse. Once new users have gotten the system figured out they no longer need to go through the APQ. In other words after users show sufficient consistency in complying to the policies and systems they are cut loose and it ain't much different than DA but they have to prove they know how it all works.

*EDIT*
[quote="eirhjien"]i guess the other prob while were at it is this.
previously i submited a picture more explicted then the one in question, marked it as moderate, got through no prob. now the pg13 one doesnt get the pass? Do i have to guess what the random person reveiwing my image deems appropriate? I don't know what your morals are.[/quote] Well, that is luck of the draw on that one to put it bluntly. #746093 and #746091 I would have approved without second thought, but you got one of our newest site staff. lol I'm a pervert and I feel you do good work. Rolling Eyes

I would have passed it as soon as I saw the (N)

[quote="eirhjien"]The worst is, I"VE FIXED the errors on previous submissions, then still get rejected, only with out an reason attached? what's up with that one?[/quote]

Rejection reasons are a required field for the rejection to be completed, unless an error occurred somewhere along the lines the reason should have been included, it is impossible for a rejection to be blank on our end.
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London · Moderator Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 6474

Strunk and White: Omit needless words, holy.

Actually I would rather be able to change categories and add warnings instead of forcing the user to do it. The time it takes to fix those things myself is less than the time it takes to repeatedly check if it's correct every time the same picture comes into the approval queue. I believe I've complained about this in the past.

The obvious solution is to go to deviant art. : )
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London · Moderator Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 6474

Also, charging users money in order to keep site staff around is not an option. The services offered by this website aren't worth shit, so the only user you would have left would be falconlobo.
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London · Moderator Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 6474

I think there would be a lot less pain for everybody if you just scrapped the approval system, implemented a flagging system like EdwardElric suggested in a different thread, and have site staff deal with pictures people complain about instead of every single picture by new artists that are uploaded onto the site.

Deviantart, youtube, fanfiction.net, livejournal, etc all do it this way. This approval system we have here is purely crap. I can see how it might have worked when the site was smaller and there were more active staff members, but it simply doesn't work anymore and you guys shouldn't be afraid to scrap it just because it's been around forever.
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London · Moderator Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 6474

I am going to quadruple post and you are going to like it.
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Battou · Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:55 am Post subject:

[quote="London"]Strunk and White: Omit needless words, holy.

Actually I would rather be able to change categories and add warnings instead of forcing the user to do it. The time it takes to fix those things myself is less than the time it takes to repeatedly check if it's correct every time the same picture comes into the approval queue. I believe I've complained about this in the past.

The obvious solution is to go to deviant art. : )[/quote]Well, I believe that will rely heavily on how Strata programs the function. I might be able provide you with the appropriate permissions to do so for a wile as the current system is set and you could get a feel for what it really entails.

[quote="London"]Also, charging users money in order to keep site staff around is not an option. The services offered by this website aren't worth @^*%, so the only user you would have left would be falconlobo.[/quote]

Yeah, that was kinda the point I was eluding to. No one wants to pay for this stuff but the moment it comes up people pay attention.
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Stratadrake · Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:22 am Post subject:

[quote="eirhjien"]I don't know what your morals are.[/quote]
"Morals" isn't technically the correct word you're looking for here.

But we do have some basic [b]standards[/b] for what material constitutes what kind of rating, all you need to know is where to look.

Did you take time to read through the submission policy text? All of it?

Okay, yes, the two links in section 4 (clause 4) aren't quite visible enough and that's partly our fault. (The whole submission policy needs rewriting anyway, but that's another matter.) The ratings advisories are officially explained here:
> http://www.fanart-central.net/ratings.php

And we also have a forum topic discussing them (which is slightly more up to date than the official policy page):
> http://forums.fanart-central.net/viewtopic.php?t=34777
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cstdenis · Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:32 pm Post subject:

Getting rid of the AP has been my plan.

Basically what I had decided is Battou was going to be the last. When he finally lost interest I'd just drop the AP. But instead we ended up getting another volunteer.

The auto approve level is very low now. It's not hard to get on auto approval anymore.
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Stratadrake · Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2009 6:10 am Post subject:

And on that note, I put a patch in the pipeline to fix the submissions form if you disable the AP system someday. Otherwise things like large-size checks or monitored categories may still cause a piece to get queued anyway.
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