How Do You Get To Wonderland?

VincentValentine13 · Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:08 pm Post subject:

This little forum is to discuss the world of Lewis Carrol's timless children's story, Alice in Wonderland and Through the Looking-Glass and what Alice Found There. I love these stories dearly, and I am quite sure that there are hidden meanings in every character and situation.

Before we start, be sure to understand that this is not a forum for discussing whether or not he was on drugs. that is childish and of no true consequence, because the story was written for his neice or something like that. I don't care, is what I'm trying to say.

So, first question: Do you think there is any representation behind the Cheshire Cat?
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loveliesbleeding · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 9:27 am Post subject:

Carroll himself said that in the books he meant only nonsense.

so, i'm going to go with that.

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VincentValentine13 · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 11:42 am Post subject:

Still, despite the nonsense, the man had an opinion, and he wrote what he knew...that's what most authors do. So, I'm thinking that his subconscious may have been voicing his thoughts even if it was just nonsense, you know? Laughing

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loveliesbleeding · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:22 pm Post subject:

True enough i suspose there are some hidden messages, probably most revelant when Alice kills the queen... as far as my opinion goes...
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My candle burns at both ends;
It will not last the night;
But ah, my foes, and oh, my friends
It gives a lovely light.
-Edna St. Vincent Millay

"Don't mind your make-up, you'd better make your mind up."
-Frank Zappa

"He that lives upon hope will die fasting."
-Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac

VincentValentine13 · Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2006 1:25 pm Post subject:

:huh: Alice killed the queen? When did that happen?
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Nilitac_Tesgrah · Posted: Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:32 am Post subject:

... I do know she ticked her off rather sharply. :huh:
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VincentValentine13 · Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject:

The Queen was feared after all, I think she was supposed to be like, the government, you know?
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Gothic_Cerberus · Rookie Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 28

Yeah having everyones heads cut off but Alice never killed the Queen at least in the book.The Cheshire Cat I just think just helped Alice with his stupid riddles.

VincentValentine13 · Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject:

Yeah, he did help....but the riddles weren't stupid Grr!

!

And the momeraths outgrabe....
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Gothic_Cerberus · Rookie Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 28

Fine Ok they weren't stupid but some I don't just understand!!

Ryo88 · Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:27 am Post subject:

the Cheshire Cat... i think is the coolest character in the whole thing ^^
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VincentValentine13 · Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:53 am Post subject:

Yes, he was the coolest, and still is. Anyway, We're doing the play at my school right now, and I'm the Mad Hatter. That got me thinking, is the Mad Hatter really mad? I mean, he says that he's talked with Time....so has he really? I mean, it is always tea-time for him, so there must be something to what he says...
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mevv · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:00 am Post subject:

Maybe he finds himself always doing the same thing. To me the world Alice fell in has a continueing pattern everday and so do the inhabitants. Perhaps they all got stuck in a rut?

I'm not sure but wasn't there something about clams? I haven't read the book in a long time. :huh:
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Ryo88 · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:21 am Post subject:

yah the clams and the walrus and the carpenter.... he ate them all poor lil clams >< WTF?

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VincentValentine13 · Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject:

The rut theory is a good one. I never thought of it that way. The only thing is that, why would everyone be afraid of the Queen of Hearts? If they weren't going to be beheaded, like the Duchess said, why would they be concerned? Is that part of the rut too, I wonder?
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flcladd1ct · Member Joined: 11 Feb 2006 Posts: 45

"I'm very much afraid I didn't mean anything but nonsense. Still, you know, words mean more than we mean to express when we use them; so a whole book ought to mean a great deal more than the writer means. So, whatever good meanings are in the book, I'm glad to accept as the meaning of the book."
(source: Collingwood, "The Life and Letters of Lewis Carroll")

(erm, the following is just my opinion)

The Walrus and the Carpenter are usually interpreted as being a story about the Christian church (the carpenter representing Christ/church, the clams the people eager to be duped).

As for the Cheshire cat, he's very indicative of a traditional trickster god. The trickster is a god, yet is not. He is the wise-fool. He rebels against authority, pokes fun at the overly serious, creates convoluted schemes - that may or may not work - plays with the Laws of the Universe and is sometimes his own worst enemy. He exists to question, to cause us to question and not accept things blindly. He appears when a way of thinking becomes outmoded, needs to be torn down, built anew. He is the Destroyer of Worlds at the same time the savior of us all. He is the energy that causes sudden, violent transformation.
The Trickster lives inside and outside of Time. He is of our world, yet not of our world, so our laws will not always apply. The Trickster is also invariably associated with taboo sexuality.
He is sometimes called "The Inner Child"

The Hatter is most likely a reference to Theophilus Carter, a furniture dealer known in Oxford for his unorthodox inventions. Tenniel apparently drew the Hatter to resemble Carter, on a suggestion of Carroll's.

Alice in Wonderland was the first ever presentation of the idea of a worm hole (Alice falls into the rabbit hole and enters a different world), in Through the Looking Glass the concept is presented again, though this time in more ambiguous manner by removing the image of the physical hole.

VincentValentine13 · Posted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject:

I always suspected the Cheshire Cat of being like, Alice's id, or her mischevious side, because he seemed to be the one in control of Wonderland. He knew what was going on, and did as he pleased.

The Hatter was mad, because of the whole thing with mercury and real hatters. I don't know anything about furniture guy, but you're probably right about that. Where did you find all of thie information?
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mevv · Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:48 am Post subject:

Maybe she did behead her card servents. It showed that they were dispensible and could be easily replaced, that's how I felt towards the cards. The other animals might of seen it and were worried they might be next. Or it was all a bluff and no one believed her except the weaker minded animals. If I'm not mistaken The Cat didn't fear her at all and he was one of the smartest.
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VincentValentine13 · Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:07 pm Post subject:

Well, the cat could remoe his own head anyway Laughing

! Still, there must have been some reason to fear her. The Duchess was afraid of her, and the nobles were all terrified. But they were never beheaded, so this is what brings up the repeat theory again!
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Gothic_Cerberus · Rookie Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 28

The Queen beheaded most of her servents before the game with Alice was over but stll let the Duchess go.