metal

[Throttle]

[quote="ragingflea002"][quote]Slipknot are posers! The guitarist learned a few powerchords and how to jump up and down. The vocal dude aint bad but hes no metal dude to me! True metal aint about dudes in masks smashing stuff and screaming their heads off![/quote]
Yeah, wrong.
By the way, it's "poseur".
Sorry, but Slipknot's guitarists(plural) can riff like motherfuckers.
Oh, and Jim Root is the lead guitarist in Stone Sour, and he can shred. Want proof? Listen to "Get Inside".[/quote]

Shreads? Oh man shreads aint everything, especially if they'r mindless shreads.
Oh and another thing, they dont make music cuz they like it, they do it for money...

and if you wanna see real guitar material view this:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hb5QaCfm7bg[/url]

whatch all of it he'll go nuts!
oh and this one

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duTK74IExV4[/url]
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[fallenangel]

Ah Nitro...

THEY R SO METUL

I'm glad someone's pimping a hair metal boy in this thread. Granted both he and Jim are beyond most poodle boys in skill, but that's still the music they played.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4HXWONc1_c Look, it's even called Raging Metal.

I like Nitro. It's just unfortunate they didn't have a member good at songwriting and not just good at their instrument. 'Cause their lyrics are Dokken painful (funny, since George Lynch of Dokken is another virtuoso crippled by shitty songs).
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"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[October]

....

Yo.
Can we lock or delete this thread? If all anyone if going to do is correct each other, then there isn't a point of keeping it up.

No one knows what they're talking about, I don't know what I'm talking about. Who really cares? It's music. I only mentioned Metal so that we didn't put in like.. Britney Spears or something, y'know.

Everyone has their opinion, everyone trys to sound smarter than the other. Let's just drop it and continue with what the thread is about. Posting your favorite bands. Or let's just delete it.
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[fallenangel]

I know what I'm talking about.

Clearly you haven't been here long. This is how music threads here go. We have educated opinions and back them up.

Post your favorite ____ threads are flamed, wither, and die.

I won't lock this because there's no need. No one's being flamed. Expressing logical opinions is good and dynamic. Make favorite band wank fests on the mtv boards or something.
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"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[ragingflea002]

Throttle.
You know, as impressive as that soloing is, I don't really think that serves as much of a foundation for your argument.
I say this because Batio is obviously an anomaly in the equation. He's a virtuoso. There are many virtuosos and he is probably towards the top of the line.
This doesn't serve as a basis for your statement on "mindless shredding". If you listened to "Get Inside", you'd hear no mindless shredding. My point was that you made a stupid comment about the guitarist. It has no foundation, and it still doesn't. So you compared him to a virtuoso. Big deal. It's like me comparing John Frusciante to John Petrucci.
Oh, and the differing styles of music doesn't help it much either.
Also, your comment on how they don't care about the music, but the money. You seriously need to prove that. Slipknot makes plenty of money with their music, and if it was just for money, why would any member of Slipknot participate in other projects?
For money? They're all rich. How much more money would they need?
I think you need to back up your arguments.
And for the record, I'm not a Slipknot fan.

[fallenangel]

To be fair, Gene Simmons has more money than god and a new project every ten minutes. But his music still sucks ass and he never gave a shit about it.

Considering most musicians have a problem with excess....there's really never "too much money".
_________________
"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[ragingflea002]

This still doesn't back up the claim that they don't care about the music. It would appear that most bands/artists that have problems with excess eventually fall back into being nothing. Simmons is what now? Some reality TV show icon?
Generally, if people don't care for something, they don't continue with it even if it pays well. At least, such is the case as far as I see it. If Slipknot didn't care for the music, they'd start putting out technically shitty material and their live performances would most likely suck.
I'm just gonna say this:
- drummer is better than most mainstream drummers, and you can't argue this.
- guitarists are excellent riffers who lock in almost perfectly to the drummer. Technically, they're very good, and side project material backs this up.
- bass locks into the drums better than the guitars.
- vocalist's style matches their collective sound perfectly.
- live percussionists add on more of a show and display more technical ability.
A few powerchords my ass.
The Gene Simmons comment is seconded.

[fallenangel]

I don't really give a shit about Slipknot, nor was I particularly referring to them. Merely the statement "For money? They're all rich. How much more money would they need?" For all you know, they want millions more.

Money, attention, pussy, ego stroking, all tend to complicate that tried and true "we're doin' it for the love of music, dude!!!" claim.

The only ones who are truly doing it [i]only[/i] for the love of music are those who tried and failed but keep on playing twenty some years later when they could be better off working at starbucks. They never made it and never will.

Once you get a taste of the benefits of success, it's very hard to not take that into account. As my formerly quite famous painting instructor always warns, be sure of what you're doing before you commit to it. Because once you get used to the car, the nice home, the eating out, the vacations, the impulse spending...you'll be obligated to live up to certain audience expectations in order to maintain it all.

Just saying. Lots of people do lots of things for money. That's ok. It's a problem when the product no longer warrants that payoff.

But given that I don't care to analyze Slipknot, I don't really care how that all applies to them.

Still, David Bowie...Paul McCartney...Mick Jagger...all have plenty of money to give away millions and die wealthy men. But I don't see them putting on any free tours either.
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"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[October]

Kay.

Well, just to voice my opinion then. Which has nothing to do with music at this moment.

Ragingflea002, you actually sound like you're just saying what you believe, and you say it in a calm matter.

FallenAngel, I'm sorry if you're not, but to me it seems like you're just trying to cause a fight. Because your remarks are a bit.. nasty. So they seem.

Doesn't matter how long I've been here. I've been to many other forums, many other sites. The people here seemed decent. But as I see there are still the few that have to take something too far. At least in the music thread. I have a little bit more to do than just try and figure out how the people act on this one. And normally, the site admins are a bit nicer in general.

I didn't write this. Simply copied, being I'm not sure if you said WTF as in, you didn't know what Goregrind is, or if you just don't like it.

Goregrind, also known as grindgore, is a subgenre of grindcore, which is related to music styles such as death metal, thrash metal, and crust punk. The main features that musically distinguish goregrind from grindcore can be narrowed down to two main aspects: 1) The use of an octave shifter on the vocals, creating a unique low pitch gurgle texture, similar to the effects used in horror movies for a possessed, demonic, or undead character. 2) More of a reliance on metal influence, or more specifically, in later years, on a primitively constructed aspect of the downtuned textures frequently used in death metal, which had, in many cases, taken the place of the crust influence on its grindcore bretheren.

My opinion on "posing" bands then.. Every style of music is developed from another. So none of them can really be called the first. Unless you want to go a hell of a long way back. =P

Anyway.. it seems more like the music threads turn into a ranting party about who is right, and who isn't. Though I can't really be much better, I'm joining in on it. Unless you are able to say it in a decent matter. Which is kind of hard to do. Everyone skips the whole point of the thread and aims straight for the, "NO. That's not right." So, it's what ever I suppose.
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[October]

[quote]Money, attention, pussy, ego stroking, all tend to complicate that tried and true "we're doin' it for the love of music, dude!!!" claim.

The only ones who are truly doing it only for the love of music are those who tried and failed but keep on playing twenty some years later when they could be better off working at starbucks. They never made it and never will.[/quote]

Just to be fair on that part too, people tend to rule out all new bands for that reason. How will you know, if you don't give them a chance. {I'm not saying you said anything like that.}
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[fallenangel]

ZOMG U DUN NO ME!!!!!!!!


.....

No really, anything I say to Flea really shouldn't be taken into account by anyone else. Because I know who he is, what he knows, and that I don't have to phrase my opinions in ten lines of fluffy bullshit to get my point across. Nor does he.

[i]Discussion[/i] is the exchange of ideas, opinions, thoughts, what have you. Verbal wanking of "I like ____" "kewl I like ____ 2" "I dun lyke ____" "well u sukk"....is just dumb. Especially to me, Flea, Tyler, perhaps Zekk, and a handful of others.

If you can't support why you think something, why bother saying it.


And on the subject of failed bands, I wasn't saying they're the only good ones either. Most failed for a reason. All I meant was what I said. They're the only ones who don't do it for money.

I do give new bands a chance. How can I mock them if I never hear them? You'll notice a theme, among those like Flea and I, in that we can always give examples. Supported opinions. That's called backing up what you say, and there should be more of it in this forum.

Unfortunately.

No one is upset about this topic, except apparently you a little bit.
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"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[ragingflea002]

[quote]I don't really give a s**t about Slipknot, nor was I particularly referring to them. Merely the statement "For money? They're all rich. How much more money would they need?" For all you know, they want millions more. [/quote]
I was typing this really long response, but I decided "fuck it, I'm tired and my recording programs suck ass".
Yeah, that's true. However, Throttle assumes that artists like Slipknot don't care at all for the music. When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me, as my mom likes to put it. It leaves his argument foundationless.
October, get used to it. It's how we roll.

[fallenangel]

I know, but you were responding to Throttle through something I said, not them. What I said was not about Slipknot.
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"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[ragingflea002]

[quote]I know, but you were responding to Throttle through something I said, not them. What I said was not about Slipknot.[/quote]
Alright, I gotcha.
I was mainly disturbed by the "few powerchords" comment. Just as how I was sort of annoyed with the "screaming and downtuned guitars is not metal to me".
As far as screaming goes, yeah, excess is not attractive.
Black Sabbath was the first band to exclusively downtune to C# because of Tony Iommi's fingers, and apparently to most people on these forums, Black Sabbath is as metal as you can get.
I define good music through the technical ability of the artists and the catchiness of what they put out. If a good acoustic songs gives me chills, it's a great song. If a riff heavy, double-bass fuelled nu-metal song with some interesting lyrics catches my fancy, then it's a good song as far as I'm concerned and I'll tell why.
If it doesn't have a melody, though, it's not worth my time. The sad thing about screamo is that they scream. The guitars and bass are generally really good, and the drums are excellent. It's the lyrics and the screaming.
Which is also why I dislike Children of Bodom, who are some form of thrash metal. The screaming annoys me to no end.
To be honest, metal is defined mosty through the guitar tone, and the drums. If you take Black Sabbath, for example, they really use tons of overdrive in their music. If you take away the overdrive, you have something that isn't heavy at all. It loses power, and the lack of overdrive can determine how much power a song has. The level of overdrive matters too. RHCP could have been funk metal with BSSM, only they have a level of gain that's turned up about midway for a more funk rock/alternative feel.
The evolution of metal, and some of you will argue that it's more like degression, is based around heavier riffs with more overdrive and more drumming. I'll be honest, my band played in D standard with the D string tuned to a C, or drop C. The lower octaves actually gives more low end to your sound and it has more power because it gives it more of a pulse. Essentially, it makes the floor shake more as compared to drop D. It sounds weird, but it's really not.
Another thing most modern metal artists are trying to accomplish is something to display technical ability. No problems with that, but if the end result is shit, then...well..yeah. System of a Down is notorious for their live shows because they can't perform their own music up to their technical standards. The guitars and bass don't lock into the drums and they fall apart.
Other bands such as Mudvayne and Tool have no problems with locking in, and changing time signatures and tempos within a second. Tool is famous for their technical brilliance, and they should be.
Gone are the days of thrash metal, which in my opinion is just terrible, and classic metal. However, their influence is still quite prominent. The wave of nu-metal bands of today are trying to show that influence, but it's ending up cramping their style. It's like Linkin Park trying to sound like Pink Floyd, which they are for their next album. They'd be better off sticking to the sound they're famous for, which is basic guitar riffs, turntables, simple drums, and a guy who screams.
The worst part is a lot of people compare Linkin Park to other nu-metal bands and hold them in the same distaste. There are better ones than Linkin Park, and to be honest, Linkin Park is sort of an insult to the rest. They don't put forth any technical effort and they can sell the most albums. Meanwhile, Tool is barely known among the younger generation and they have the most technical songs on the radio, as well as melodic.
I'll be honest, though. I'm afraid of what's to come in metal.

[fallenangel]

Sabbath and Led Zep are as metal as a lot of current people get 'cause they're the only ones who have t-shirts in Hot Topic.

Oh, forgot to answer the thing about goregrind. I said wtf because it's a really retarded sounding name. Too far removed from the established basic core catalog. Adding new descriptions as new subgroups are added is good, but they could at least be semi-relatable to what's already there.

I'd imagine the progression goes something like hardcore>grindcore>goregrind but then the finished product is something else entirely from where it started. And I see that usually happening when a particular band, or small group of bands, create a subgenre name that just sounds "wicked cool" (even if that's not the case here).

Even when the "rock" part is left off, industrial, alternative, all have a connection to what comes before.

Anyway, that's all I was saying. Dumb name.


I skimmed your post Flea, 'cause it sounds like a text book of stuff I've already read, but others should read it. Good stuff.

And on a completely superficial note that lacks almost any sort of substance, clearly Hair Metal is the only good form of metal that evolved from the classics. (if anyone's stupid enough to try to argue that painfully easy point, I'll blind them with aquanet)
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"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[ragingflea002]

Hot Topic kills braincells, unless you buy the band t-shirts. I've seen some RATM and Tool in there I wouldn't mind buying...
Otherwise, who needs jeans with 100 zippers?
So, what's the basic difference between goregrind and grindcore? I'm not really seeing one at the moment. Someone educate me, please.

[fallenangel]

I have no idea, that's why I think it sounds like a silly name. Invented to describe 3 bands who are subtley different than the others.

I don't like the shirts. Last I was there returning a gift with someone, they had a Cinderella shirt. Like anyone there buys it because they like Cinder. It's "omg so ironic, lolz look at teh fags". Same with the classics. Pink Floyd shirts. Trendy. Expensive.

Ebay. <3

Anyway, metal.

I stand by Nitro. Jim Gillette's hair ate babies. And that's so metal.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/blackleatherart/girly/jim.jpg[/img]
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"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[Throttle]

Yea Nitro rocks
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[fallenangel]

Only from a skill standpoint, but at least that's somethin'.

Jim's married to Lita Ford now. That's pretty metal too. Even if he's retired.
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"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

[October]

Yeah actually, I am annoyed with it.
For the simple fact of:

Thread, post your favorite bands. That's it. No discuss about it. I just wanted to know what everyone listened to. But then you get this crap about picking everything a part. Arguement or not. There are ways to discuss without sounding like an ass.

But regardless, I'll change the first post then. Then leave the thread alone. I have more things I need to do that sit infront of the computer and try to explain that little detail to you guys. So, respond to this if you'd like, but I'm not going to read it. If you want to discuss any futher with me, PM me. x)
But, I can't say that I'll be likely to answer that either. Won't have time for much for much of any of it.
And not like I'll lose any sleep from it.

Have fuun. ~ <3
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