Is pop/punk any good?

Ogrim_Doomhammer · Oldbie Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2116

Yeah, its weird for me to say this because I actually hate the pop punk but please read on.

A couple of days ago i was watching a TV show about the past, future and present of the guitar on the music scenes of the world. Right now (and since a couple of years ago), the genre that is ruling the pop audience (other than hip-hop and rap) is the pop/rock and the pop/punk sound. With bands like Simple Plan, Good Charlotte, Avril Lavinge, Sum41, Blink182, My Chemichal Romance, Ashlee Simpson among others. 20 years ago pop was a lot lighter than it is now, with guys like Boy George, Madonna, Michael Jackson and a lot of other weird guys, as time has passed rock elements have infiltrated into pop music so much that now the mainstream pop has distorted guitars and heavier drums to a lesser extent.

In theory, just as blues returned changed into metal(zep and sabbath), punk "returned from the underground" and changed with pop to hold rock elements, with all the bands stated above. So classic rock with guitar virtuosity should also be returning.

Do you think that pop/punk is just preparing the pop audiences to get heavier stuff soon or is it just a coincidence?

EDIT: ture fallen, fixed it....
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fallenangel · Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:30 am Post subject:

Lolz It's more than a "slight" change.

I've always been a little annoyed by the adoption of the term "punk" in pop punk, because there's absolutely nothing about the music that is similar. The connection is in the idea that the kids who play it like to think they're badass rebels who can conform with the previous non conformists and be SO KEWL.

Pop punk is just pop with distorted guitars, this is true. It's hard to hum a punk song, even the well known ones. Try it with Anarchy In The UK and you see there is no catchy hook, just a melody you kinda sorta know (that the band didn't even stick to in performance). If you took any pop song...you mentioned Culture Club, so let's say Karma Chameleon...and played it with distorted guitars and a shitty teenage singer, you'd have a pop punk song. Imagine it. It's true. And would probably be a hit since 80s pop is about as catchy as you can get.

I think pop punk is just rock for a pop audience. Girls who listened to Britney Spears in middle school generally won't run out and buy metallica, but they'll listen to Good Charlotte. By inventing these bands (and they're very much label corporate inventions, but I guess that's a different thread) the labels are widening their audience and making big bank off pop kids. I don't see the progression going much further, else the hook is lost, and it's the hook that gets the kids' interest.

Funny thing is, if you go much farther, you just have hair bands again without the outfits. That's what it was, hard rock infused with pop and punk in the earlier days. Catchy hooks and riffs that stuck in your head. But that won't happen 'cause you actually need years of experience and extreme talent to pull that off.

Anyway. Yeah. Music hasn't changed much, but the business has. Labels run themselves differently these days and are as different as the media in general.

Example...

Axl Rose has spent basically a decade working on Chinese Democracy with the support of Geffen/Interscope. Millions of dollars. He's a leftover from the days of long running acts who had 10-30 year long careers, instead of an expected 3-4 years (think of the big rock acts from '97. Most are barely remembered today). There's no way a label would dump millions into a current pop punk act for over a decade with no payoff. Use 'em and lose 'em.

And sadly, kids have grown accustomed to that.

Ah well. The upside is that technology has developed to the point self production is much easier, and there's enough small labels that can distribute albums. All that's missing is the much needed promotion. So no, I don't see the mass market changing much in terms of heavier material, least of all pop. Pop is drifting towards rock, and rock has been drifting towards pop, but all that will happen is eventually there'll be some crappy middle point and they'll bounce back in the other direction.

Whatever sells.
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ragingflea002 · Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Is pop/punk any good?

[quote]
In theory, just as blues returned changed into metal(zep and sabbath), punk "returned from the underground" and changed with pop to hold rock elements, with all the bands stated above. So classic rock with guitar virtuosity should also be returning.
[/quote]
I think that the "return of classic rock" would be a bad thing because it leaves nothing to originality. I would love to imagine that any new style of music has its elements of creativity. Guitar virtuosity has been returning, and I'm not really sure it ever left. Vai, Satch, Petrucci, and most all new thrash artists have virtuosos and they've been around for quite some time. Bass virtuosos are alive and kicking as well, such as Billy Sheehan, John Myung, Tony Levin, and Bill Dickens.
I'd like to accept that the best of modern music is as good as being labelled as "classic". Tool, Soundgarden, Rage Against the Machine, and Incubus are the modern day classics as far as I'm concerned, and when I'm 40 years old, possibly with kids of my own, I'll be able to throw those bands in the "classic" label.
Wolfmother is some shit, and I hope they stop playing "Woman" on the radio. Seriously. Jet can lay down and fade away too. If that's part of this so called revival of classic rock, I'm not interested in taking part in it.
Pop/punk is built around catchiness, as Fallen said. I have no problem with the catchiness in the guitars, bass, and drums, but the vocals often sound way too nasally or generic. The lyrics are a whole 'nother deal. I recall listening to "Fat Lip" by Sum41, and it's pretty bland as far as the lyrics go.
That's the worst thing about it, in my opinion, is the lack of flavor in the lyrics. Oddly enough, some of your guitar virtuosos are in some of these pop/punk bands. Ray Toro of My Chemical Romance idolizes Brain May and is as talented as May is, roughly. The former guitarist for Sum 41 could riff and solo quite decently.
What I've always been concerned about is that people will start overlooking live performances and judge soley on the studio efforts. I also don't like when bands use a bunch of studio enhancements to make a track. Hoobastank's new single "Born to Lead" features a clip of a drill sergeant throughout the entire song. That song will not have as much power live, and I'm bothered by that. Not because I like the band, but because I'm afraid other bands with excellent potential are going to screw themselves over live because they can't deliver the full force of the album.
But then again, a lot of people won't care. A lot of people love System of a Down, and they suck live.

fallenangel · Posted: Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:06 pm Post subject:

I've seen both Sum41 and Hoobastank opening for better bands (Motley and Velvet Revolver respectively). They suck anyway. No presence, wasted energy that doesn't connect with the audience, and terrible sound quality. Every song of theirs sounds exactly the same. The guitarist for Hoobastank was tolerable but a lousy performer.

I still think it's more of an industry precident these days than a music scene one. Because there's still alot of great bands playing in NYC and Hollywood and doing a great job of it. But big labels don't recruit out of clubs the way they used to, it's easier to just mold a random group into whatever their market studies say will sell.

I'm really ready for this trend of teenage "singers" to die. That flat nasally voice that every band has is really irritating. Somebody get the new Jani Lane in there for christ's sake.

On a semi-related note, Vains of Jenna were recruited out of a club by Bam Margera and produced through his little label, so the old system still works. Just not on a large scale anymore. Sad

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killkenny101 · Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject:

You've all probably heard this before but punk pop is awesome!
P.S.:I don't consider Avril whatsherface punk pop. Wink

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fallenangel · Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:50 pm Post subject:

Yes, I've heard that before. I laughed and rolled my eyes then, I laugh and roll my eyes now. As such. Laughing

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ragingflea002 · Posted: Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:58 pm Post subject:

If it's not very serious, I can enjoy it. It's when they start being serious that I find it boring and uninviting.
I mean, every once in a while, I wanna hear a song about trivial and unimportant stuff with a hook just so I can laugh a bit.

Ogrim_Doomhammer · Oldbie Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2116

The thing that really anoys me about pop/punk bands is that they are just like emo's. if you call them pop/punk they get pissed because their music isn't pop, its rock......
UGH Blah

But i do think that music tends to return, and the fact that distortion and riffs is infiltrating into pop music can't be bad in the long run.
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Ogrim_Doomhammer · Oldbie Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2116

EDIT: I haven't double posted in a long time..... The forum was giving out an error....
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Hybrid · Very bored Joined: 14 Jul 2004 Posts: 230

If you've never listened to music in your life, then it's decent.

If you grew up with the first wave of punk rock, then no. Not by a long shot. i have yet to hear a punk(up until now i have reffered to it as 'poser-punk') rock band that has not:

play the same two notes in the bass. you know the ones.

play generic power chords and call it a melody

employed singers who sound as if they are whining and have not hit peuberty yet.

written lyrics that could have come out of a angry teenager's diary

sounded EXACTLY like yellowcard.

there are exceptions to every rule off course. Nothing is absolute, and we as people would do well to remember that.

the opening riff of 'way away' sounds pretty good to me. off course, as soon as the chorus begins so does the prepuebescent squel and the teenage angst.

then there's the emo screamo sect, the people that refuse to perform songs that do not include the words "Darkness", "Soul", "Heart", or "abyss".

this probably pisses me off a little more, because, while the poser punks pretty much whine about problems everyone goes through, the emo kids Scream about problems everyone goes through, and uses metaphors of huge and usually morbid scope to describe them all.

all i can say is thank goodness for the offspring.

Hybrid · Very bored Joined: 14 Jul 2004 Posts: 230

gggrr.. same thing happened to me.

fallenangel · Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject:

[quote]the fact that distortion and riffs is infiltrating into pop music can't be bad in the long run.[/quote]

Sure it can. At least former pop brats were well aware of what they were. VH1 may get lazy about what they'll call "rock" in their countdowns, but Boy George fans weren't claiming to be hardcore rockers.

Add a little guitar to a pop song and kids think they're the new grunge wave.

'Tis annoying is all. And when you add guitar to bad pop you get....The Darkness.
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Ogrim_Doomhammer · Oldbie Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2116

[quote] And when you add guitar to bad pop you get....The Darkness.[/quote]

NAHHHHH, the darkness is fun, they have a good couple of guitarists, just like Moderatto.... although moderatto has better music in general...
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fallenangel · Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:43 am Post subject:

The Darkness can blow me. Fuckin' waste of space. I get what they were goin' for, but they really missed the mark.

It's like Bowling For Soup's song (and video) 1985 was turned into a band. Lame.

But they're pop rock, not pop punk, so anyway...
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Hybrid · Very bored Joined: 14 Jul 2004 Posts: 230

[quote="fallenangel"]
It's like Bowling For Soup's song (and video) 1985 was turned into a band. Lame.
[/quote]

Yikes. I could not have come up with a more grisly comparison if i tried.

DemonaHHH · Newb Joined: 12 Jul 2006 Posts: 14

I hate pop punk.

SilverKitsune · Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 8:29 pm Post subject:

I like it, has a good soound to it, sometimes. Then again, my tastes in music are very vers.
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