Pro or Anti Anthro/Furry?

fallenangel · Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:19 am Post subject:

It's not the idea/concept of having backstories, it's the actions of the artists. Their need to ramble on about their boring characters more than other fandoms. And it's only that much worse if the art and/or story suck.

For example.

While I do loathe anime art, Pu-Sama is on my DA watch list. She has original characters. With complicated backstories I believe. But she does not fill the description with 500 words of generic explanation. The art stands on its own and the story can be read elsewhere (though I think she's keeping it all secret for some bigger deal in the future...whatever).

With anthro, however, there's a much higher rate of artists who take their halfassed characters far too seriously. It's pretty much in the same area of annoyance as the people who aren't very good at something but still try to give advice on how to do it. Posting godawful tutorials and such. The characters are crap, the art usually isn't much better, but there's this attitude of self-importance over them.

That's why I don't like anthro as a genre. Not only do I have to look at poorly drawn cat things, it's accompanied by an epic summary of a mundane story (or god help these poor preteens, "novel in progress").
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Lizkay · Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 1:03 am Post subject:

That is definielty true, but I still wouldn't really refer it to the anthro genre, I guess there is the same amount of crappy art and character descriptions in all other genres, anime, sci-fi.. just pick one, I don't see a real proof why it should be only that high in the anthro/furry genre, I think it's the theme/genre itself, people, even the artists didn't get attention with being human, drawing human characters so they try it the anthro way, which drags the whole theme through the mire. So the "watcher" thinks also that way, but not all the artists who do anthro stuff make it because of that reason, I know that the told arguments aren't against the artists themself, it's all about the genre. What I have discussed with other artists, specially with these who only make anthro art and nothing else is, that they are sometimes afraid of sharing their art because it is anthro, on the other side, I rarely see artists getting ashamed posting pornographic photographs... so I think every genre has its shady sides. You can say I like it or I hate it, try to find a reason why you hate it or not and you are done with the genre...

Concerning the stories behind, I don't really think it turns out to be a problem to post it directly or not.. nobody forces you to read it, if the art is brilliant done, (and I don't really care about the theme/genre there.. I do tend to look at the quality of the art at first... which isn't always a good decision, I know) .. and they have a whole bunch of stories added, I will likely ignore it and just look at the arts.

fallenangel · Posted: Mon Jul 03, 2006 7:52 pm Post subject:

Of course you can just look at the art. You can buy a magazine just for the pretty pictures too. But the "don't like it, don't look at it" defense is very rarely a good one.

And it is higher in the anthro community (and somewhat the more broad anime genre) to place excessive importance on characters, or to think they're better than they are. That's my problem with it, this delusional attitude that one blue fox picture is better or more unique than another. Generally from the teenage "I'm so different" age range, of course.

Linda Bergkvist has amazing fantasy characters with individual fairytales for each. Ursula Vernon has long stories for each of her pictures, generally made up as she goes along. But both are [i]extremely[/i] imaginative and unlike anyone else's. There are only so many ways to characterize a moody cat boy, and it gets painfully redundant.

It's fine that they do it, and I'm probably not explaining the part I object to properly, but...it's the same problem I have with really terrible artists that think they're amazing.

And the art itself, well, I just can't take it seriously. Just can't. Show me a sci-fi picture of two guys shooting each other with futuristic guns, that's cool. Turn those two guys into dogs and it's silly.
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DivineWolf · Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 9:20 pm Post subject:

I'm pro-furries too.

It doesn't really matter what the content of the art is. It's the detail, and the effort the artist put into it. Who knows, cliche furries could be symbolic for something else.
It makes me sad when people disregard art just because it's cliche. If ya ask me, it's pretty pathetic when people do that.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder."

P.S. Don't hurt me, I'm a 'baby'.
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Stratadrake · Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 10:36 pm Post subject:

[quote]It's fine that they do it, and I'm probably not explaining the part I object to properly, but...it's the same problem I have with really terrible artists that think they're amazing.[/quote]
In other words, that you have better skills than they do?

Well, everyone had to start somewhere....

fallenangel · Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:10 pm Post subject:

No, that they overestimate themselves or their importance. Nothin' wrong with being a crap artist. Not realizing it on the other hand...
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Stratadrake · Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject:

Well... "crap" [i]is[/i] a subjective term, so...

(Then again, the Tate Museum did pay millions for a literal can of crap....)

fallenangel · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 12:38 am Post subject:

Subjective...to a point. But now you're just being argumentative, as I'm sure even you can recognize terrible artists with inflated or delusional egos.
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Kitzy · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 7:38 am Post subject:

I think the real problem people have when they take a look at furry art, is the fact that they're only finding garbage pictures. It's like when you're looking for anime-style art on the internet. All of the pictures seem to blend together.

The main focus on drawing anthros is making an animal seem human. The genre, if used in comics and things, is used to show diversity and acceptance of others (like, having a society where every animal is treated equally), or it can be used to illustrate the exact opposite (dogs not getting along with cats, sort of bringing out the 'racism' theme).

Also, when drawing anthros you have to focus more on the body language of your character when portraying emotion. A person can make facial expressions and use their hands and posture, but with anthros you can add even more expression through the use of ears, tails or fur position (fear-fur standing on end).

I would draw more people, but I just don't find my human drawings appealing. You have a lot less freedom when drawing a person than you do with an animal =/.

There are a few people who I think really bring out the anthro genre, and do a very good job of it (unfortunately, I do comic-style anthros because I'm practicing to make comics...).

Example of some really nice anthro art:
[url]http://www.darknatasha.com/darknatasha/webpages/furry/anthro.html[/url]
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Squidman · Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2006 8:36 am Post subject:

The only real issue I have with antho artists is that they tend to be exceptionally prone to being preachy vegans/ animal rights fanatics. My biggest pet peeve in life are people who value the lives of animals more than those of humans or believe that "if animals ruled the world we would have peace". The ones who write epic stories about furries who live in utopian societies and defend themselves from evil greedy humans.... the type who generally have no idea how nature works.

Every time I talk to an athro artist who says that they wish all people who eat meat would die or that they want to kill every trapper and farmer they meet, I hate the whole genre just a little bit more.

I know that not all anthro artists are like this. My best friend from Sheridan (and future roomate) predominantly drew animal characters, and I have nothing but respect for her and her art. It's just those difficult, vocal ones polluting the waters for everyone else.

I'm thinking that someone who wears as much black leather as I do and has her hair dyed in a suspiciously Cruella DeVil-esque manner isn't destined to get along with animal rights champions anyway.

[quote]I would draw more people, but I just don't find my human drawings appealing. You have a lot less freedom when drawing a person than you do with an animal =/[/quote]
I think this is really one of those "eye of the beholder" type statements. Personally, I enjoy drawing humans more and think I can play around with their faces and structure a lot more. That's probably just because I'm more familliar with people and know what I can get away with.

When I look at most (most, not all) anthro artists the internet has to offer, all of their characters look like they come from the same base. Is that character supposed to be a wolf? A Collie? A fox? it's hard to tell because they learn how to draw one head shape and use that for every character. Not really any different from anime artists who stick a new hairstyle on a cookie-cutter anime face and call it a different perso, in my books. I don't see where all the artistic feedom is in either scenario.
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sailorharmony2000 · Very bored Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 143

[b]I'm sorry...I forgot to check the date and accidentally bumped an old thread; I won't do this again.[/b]

[quote="IndagoFeather"]I'm fed up with furries because people never come up with anything new. It's always cat furry, dog furry, fox furry or wolf furry. No one ever considered a giraffe or fish furry.

Honestly, I think it's all the same generic thing, no one ever comes up with anything new. There are a few other things I find distasteful about furries but I've said enough.[/quote]

Actually, I have seen a giraffe furry, but that person's website is down for construction now. They had awesome work!

I make those furries that you're tired of simply because I like those creatures in [i]real[/i] life, not because they're 'easy' to make or are overdone and I just want to be 'part of the incrowd'. Quite naturally, I'm going to draw things that I like, not draw things just to say that "I'm the first to make an elephant furry". (I'm sure someone somewhere has done that) I like cute, fuzzy animals with long, bushy tails. I have made squirrels, skunks, and a few other animals as well. But I had no idea they were overdone online; still isn't going to stop me from making them.[/b]
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Kitzy · Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:54 am Post subject:

Even though you did bump an older topic, you had good reason to. I guess a lot of people will judge the furry artists when they draw the same animals because they think that they're doing it just because it's popular.
I draw foxes, but...that's because foxes are my favorite animal, especially red foxes. It's reflected in my work.
I've drawn other characters for other people, such as a strange wolf hybrid...had nothing to do with a canine-drawing fix, it's just what she wanted.

Though I do admit, I can't draw large cat furries to save my life. I've studied more wolf and fox pictures to figure out how their faces look than I have cats. I like to stick with things I enjoy drawing until I'm ready to expand.

I feel I have more freedom when drawing furries due to the fact that I can make their snouts a lot longer or shorter, wider, narrower, etc. without making the animal look like some really deformed being. With drawing humans, typically if you make something of a larger proportion people will notice it a lot more and get distracted.
It's a fact that when someone looks at a life drawing, they'll be able to pick out the facial flaws on it because people are more familiar with human faces. When you draw an animal face on a well-proportioned body, people aren't familiar with the face and have to look harder to see flaws.

Hmm..basically, a lot of people draw furries because you get to make different species and things.
Oh, and just something for that statement:
[quote]The ones who write epic stories about furries who live in utopian societies and defend themselves from evil greedy humans[/quote]
Typically, most people writing furry stories don't put humans into them, because they don't belong in there.
Though, I was working on writing a furry story - but it's more sci-fi/medieval/fantasy than modern like a lot of furry stories seem to be. What's the point of making an alternate humanity and not making anything special in it? In the stories I'm writing...humans are just beings from another planet.

Anyway, I suppose Squiddy's right about the fact that a lot of furry artists are ruining things for the ones who truly want to make beautiful art pieces. There are so many garbage-y furry drawers out there who aren't trying to improve, that there's really not a lot of demand to see furry artwork. But it has gone the same way as anime art. The only difference is there are a lot more people drawing ugly anime art than there are people drawing furries.

I guess you just have to keep an open mind on art, because there are some very common types of art on the internet that you'll find everywhere. You'll see a ton of mediocre pictures but eventually you'll come across a gem (I'm going to try hard to eventually create some of those kinds of pictures).[/quote]
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Squidman · Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject:

I have seen several examples of humans-meet furries-with-PETA-friendly-results on the net, but I never cared enough about them to remeber details just like "arr, the internet made me angry today."

I know there's a webcomic out there somewhere where that's the whole concept of the story, Furries live in one city and Humans live in another, and the humans are all slick creepy warmongerers and murderers while all the furries have traits like normal humans should..

When I talk about the more obnoxious furries ruining it for the rest or them, I mean like what happened to y!Gallery. It was meant to be a site for art of human males. Furries were allowed, but they had to have a tag so that people could censor them in their gallery viewing options if they didn't want to see it. All the furry artists who came to the site invited their friends and there came a time where furry art submissions outnumbered human art. People started getting lazy with their tags and some blew up at the mods who chastized them for it. People were blatantly disobeying the rules and the site was deviating from it's core theme. The only option the mods had was to ban any new submissions of furry art.

That bitchy minority ruined it for all the people who drew furry art on the site, and there are some very nice ones there. Even one of the mods does a lot of furry art, but she went along with the desicion.

I dunno about there being more anime art than furry art on the net tho'.... Maybe I'm just good at seeking it out without meaning to, but I see a whooooooooole lotta furry art on the internet. Just as much - if not more - than I see anime art.
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Kitzy · Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 8:39 pm Post subject:

Strange...I look for furry art, but never find as many images as I do when I search fanart Confused

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Squidman · Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 9:01 pm Post subject:

I don't search for anime fanart Razz

I just mean people who draw furries as their own personal style. If you look at the Artists Beware community on LJ, most of the people there are furry artists. The only really active art exchange communities are for furry art - in fact the most well set-up art exchange LJ is furry art only.
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alchemest1 · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 7:11 am Post subject:

I will admit before going any further that yes, I am a Fur. Ignor me if you like. Anyway. Obviosly I am pro-Fur and anthro art. I have to say that I have seen good points on both sides. The art does tend to steer towards the more mainstream animals, but that I've found is mostly because those are the animals a lot of people like. I will admit I am guilty of it as well. My gallery has a wolf, a fox and a jaguar in it. But I at least tried to make them more interesting. I have to agree with Kitzy. I draw wolves and Foxes(I have mercy on you all and don't flood the site with it) because they are my favorit animals and the ones that I study and have interest in. I will admit as lifestyle Fur my Fursona is a wolf and yes I live my Fursona.(Don't linch me please. I'm not trying to justify my lifestyle to you. Honestly I could care less if you hate me. I'm a "furfag" there see I don't care)so naturally my art leans towards wolfs. I also agree that a lot of the artists that draw fur art or anthro art are mediocer at best. This does tend to put a lot of people off. Hell. I'm a Fur and even I don't like half of the art. As for yiff art(Fur porn)well. All I can say is you'll get that in every fandom and style. Regretfully most of the Furverts hang out online.(Most respectable furs keep quiet and avoid confrontation and live normally just like you all. Wow. And here I am online out in a debate board....ISWEAR I'M NOT A FURVERT OR LOOKIJG FUR TROUBLE)So regretfully it's the Furverts that get all the attention and post all the yiff art(I will admit. Some of it't pretty good. I found a good one of Fox and Krystal, sorry) Anyway, it's really no different than the anime section. I see tons of uh....yiff(couldn't think of the word)pics of anime. As it is I find more anime yiff pics online(although I'm not looking. I got a mate. I don't need porn)than Fur yiff pics. Anyway. That's my opinion. Don't hurt me cause I'm a Fur I get enough of that in public in real life. Just thought I would weigh in on the subject considering it is about Fur art.
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Stratadrake · Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:18 am Post subject:

Killer bump, dude.

Unfortunately, we have a rule of etiquette about not-bumping-dead-topics.

Granted, your response is a worthwhile one, but let's not start a pro/anti furry debate.
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