Humanity, good or evil?

[BlackFang13]

-I am sorry to anyone who is completely confused by this, tis an ongoing debate between Lackadaisydragon and moi
-I do believe I just put this in the wrong spot, sorry!

Yes, throughout human history has been the “will it hurt me, will it help me kill/defeat my enemies, can I use it to get food” but, that’s what keep our species alive throughout the years, so, more of a neutral than a negative.

Oui, I did have a few negatives of how humans treated other humans, but, that isn’t a constant, take this past generation for example! Our generation is one of the most accepting ones in quite a long time, yes racism still exists, but it is [i]by far[/i] less than it has been in previous generations. If anything human history is that of [i]overcoming[/i] pointless social injustice. While not completely there yet, we are quickly making it there. (I am not much of an optimist; you really should hear my mental process before I take a test) (It’s along the lines of, “Well I’m going to fail this, hurray!”)

The problem with the “Will it make me money question, is that it is [i]New[/i] life being dealt with. That and 500 years of change, yes “Will it make me money” always exist as a question, but it will not be the primary objective when new life is found. Then it will be more scientific, gaining their complete trust, and trading. (Having allies with you when your tackling the great unknown is more of an advantage than any monetary gain one can get. That and once you finally get their trust enough to trade, killin’ ‘em off is rather pointless.) That and scientists would be very, veryy, [i]verrryyy[/i] against killing the greatest scientific discovery since, well… Is there anything that can really compare meeting new life? (Sliced bread?)

Yes, there would be new forms of the modern neo Nazi’s and KKK, and interplanetary terrorism. (I’ll tackle the last one, first.) Yes it would still exist (but one can’t really say for sure.), but it would only really be mainly within the outer colony worlds who believe that the Earth government is ‘too inept’, ‘too far away to care’, ect. To lead, and given time (And some military involvement) such feelings would eventually calm down. (That or the terrorists “Rebels” would fight win, and humanity would be split into two factions) But, all and all, friction between planets would be less than that of countries, because of all the extra space humanity has to spread out.

New sections of KKK and neo-Nazi would pop up, but they would be hard pressed to convince humans to kill this new life. (If new life is found early in the colonization stage, which would be one of the more peaceful times of human history, humans would have a more ‘noble’ feeling (I could choose a better word than noble..) and would be more than happy to join with the new life, and help them advance forward.)(If they were found later, and if there was friction between inner colonies/outer colonies, then people would be less likely wish to go to war, and use this new life as a distraction of sorts, get to learn more about them, their culture and beliefs, ect. Sadly this could also go to the ‘conquer them’ but that isn’t very likely. And the wish not to go to war would be greater if a war had just ended/currently going on between the Terrorists of the Outer colonies, and the military of the inner colonies)

I think you brought up religious zealots, but I don’t remember your point at the moment, lol, sorry.
Post away, my friend, if I may call you that!

[Lackadaisydragon]

You may call me a friend indeed. This actually the first time I've found someone to debate about this with who has brought up good counterpoints for my arguments.

And I can see where you're going with this, the belief that by the time interstellar travel is possible that the morality level of the general populace would be higher than it is today. That for interstellar travel and the colonization of other planets to be possible that mankind would have to have stopped, or at least greatly decreased, our own racial and religious subjegations.

I also believe you are one hundred percent right about how the scientists would feel about the new life to be found on other planets.

I do however disagree with one of the major points of your counter argument.

Space.

It's never stopped wars from happening, it's actually what causes them. The closest thing I can think of to equate to the aquisition of space and therefore comodoties is, "The only thing better than a crawfish dinner is five crawfish dinners." Why settle for one planet when you can have twenty?

Greed is the creed for businessmen. It would be them, by the time space travel comes about, that make it so the science could be done. It would be them buying the claims to planets, inhabited or not, to mine them of their resources. It would be the businessmen who would be ordering in the troops. the troops would be relatively high paid and would be facing inhuman creatures, demons according to the zealots, so they would have no moral burden.

Hell, humans do that to eachother. In the crusades the christians had no qualms about killing the arabs because, according to their own religious leaders, the arabs were godless savages who had sold their souls to a false prophet. In WWII the Nazi's dehuminized the jewish culture so that they were not killing men and women and children, just vermin. In vietnam our own soldiers, fighting for right or wrong, killed innocent villagers, raped women, and stole whatever they please simply by labeling themselves as the good guys.

That mixed with the greed of the buyers would make any kind of relationship with intelligent inhuman life tenuous at best, all out war at the worst.

I do hope that by the time we do encounter intelligent life outside of our planet that human civilization has developed to a point that it can and will simply accepted with a 'Welcome to the neighborhood' attitude, but I just can't believe that they would yet.

On a side note: Did you know that the universe is so expansive that the likely hood of intelligent alien life is all but proven. The only thing seperating the skeptics from the believers at this point is actual contact.
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Best sentence in the history of mankind- "He went insane for a while but then got bored and regained sanity." - found in the Ben 10 wiki, part of Professor Paradox's history.

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[BlackFang13]

Hurray, I have made mien self a new friend =P
I do this kind of debating all the time with some friends of mine (Usually over subjects I know little to nothing about, so I’ve gotten good at making an argument out of well… nothing? But hey, that’s why I always find debates like this fun; it’s all based on what you believe and your own personal experiences!
The problem with your counter argument on space is, (If I read it correctly that is, haha) [i]how[/i] humans begin to expand, or how resources are put to use.
-Oh and a quick, war early on between humans (More Terrorists vs. Earthen Government than anything else) might not necessarily be a bad thing. (As twisted as that sounds) Space invites a different type of warfair, and it would help prepare humans for whatever big baddies might be lurking out there for them. (Or maybe one crazy country will get a nuke, and start a nukeclear war that ends the world!)

Your idea [i]seems[/i] to be more along the lines of “one man owning a planet and using the resources for businesses” the way I see it is more of an Imperial standpoint (Always did love those crazy Romans and their pleasant little empire), where Earth is the center of the Empire and all other planets are governed under the Earthen government (U.N. would probably take over as the Human Empire’s goverment.). The government its self would [i]most likely[/i] be a republic, where planets choose who represents them when the Earthen Government and the number of representatives are chosen by how many live on the planet (E.G., tired of tying it, haha) (So something more or less along the lines legislative branch of the U.S. government, or the Star Wars Grand Counsel.)

Resources would mainly be pushed into shipbuilding (Mostly using uninhabitable planets to mine for resources) so something more of companies owning large stretches of land on a planet, rather than owning the whole planet. (That and privet military mines… Though that is unlikely)

I see expansion done more by an organized military than privet businessmen. The amount of man power and resources it takes to colonize a planet, along with all the organization needed is very extensive. That and Military would have monetary backing by the E.G. which helps out the idea of Imperial expansion than business expansion. (That and the unity needed to truly get past Earth’s protective cradle into the great unknown, also helps the Imperialistic idea) So the chances of Military become privet business is relatively low. (I see the E.G. being more of a strong government that regulates business than business taking over as the government.)

As for the ‘welcome to the neighborhood’ (God I misspelled that word a good seven times) we are taking about 500+ years in the future, so who knows that the norm would be for human psyches.

I look forward to your counter argument! (Man these take ages to type out!)

[Lackadaisydragon]

Yeah, I see your point there about the imperialism encompassing space travel. For my idea of what happened to take hold, Businesses buying and selling planets like land, would rely on a business like RDA being formed. According to the book RDA basically bought out the U.S. then global governments after one hundred years of good business and basically became the deciding force of...well, everything.

The only way my idea of commerce using actual planets and not just their commodoties would either take a true life version of the RDA or for our interstellar travel and trade to get to a point where a business could by one or two planets because there would be thousands, possibly millions available for trade. By that time there would be laws around the buying and selling and even terraforming of planets. Those rich in life would probably be made into reserves and those with intelligent life would be contacted and given the proposal of joining the aliance.

But that is, of course, best case scenario, just as my argument deals with the worst case.

And my Idea of the initial reaction to inhuman yet intelligent life still stand. If and when life is discovered someone, most likely a zealot who is doing it all in the name of his beliefs, will decide that these peoples, be they tall blue hunters on the fourteenth moon of Polyphemus or technologically similar creatures who are entering the space age themselves, need to be destroyed. The more pius types will try to convert the new life to their own ideas of religion, if the peoples encountered are peaceful.

That is another thing, we are focusing on how humans would react as the instigators of an interplanetary conflict, but the aliens themselves could be the antagonists, like the hunters from the Predator movies. This in itself would invite the evils I mentioned with the soldiers of the vietnam war emerging. Claiming righteousness or saying what your doing is for the greater good opens up a lot if inroads for the foulest parts of human nature to take root.

And, to an extent, you are right. An interstellar war would be good, if only as a learning experience. It would also breed arrogance and complacency in the winning side like the wars involving America. Over the years since world war two Americ has become rife with hubris, arrogance, and thinks it can not be destroyed that, unlike ancient Rome, it will never fall.

If China had suitable reason it could crush not only America's military force, but its population as well. If it banded together with our enemies I'm not even sure that Allying ourselves with the nations that were our previous allies would do much good.

Immagine the same scenario among planets.

The point being that no matter what we are either doomed to repeat ourselves over and over on a constantly growing scale, or we will find ourselves in a Utopia.

The worst part for me is that either way I can still see evils that should not be ignored that will be. Like gangs and organized crime. Currently it is oriented on a single "Family" for each organization, or kids from one neighborhood fighting the kids from another.

Imagine either one of those on an interstellar level. Still small enough not to need direct involvement more often than not, but still a cancerous growth on liver of true civility that, given time, could cripple it.

( Tell me about it. It's making my fingers ache to type this much.)
_________________
Epic is spelt A-V-A-T-A-R. Those who disagree will be ignored as spiritual lepers.

Best sentence in the history of mankind- "He went insane for a while but then got bored and regained sanity." - found in the Ben 10 wiki, part of Professor Paradox's history.

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[Crazywhitegirl13]

(I'm going to try to get some of this action. Keep in mind, I'm still 13. I may be stupid in certain areas.)

What you guys are debating about is basically about how humans will react to space and intellectual life forms, right? What I'm thinking is what would happen if humans tried to explore, but the planets and there aliens aren't accepting change. I know it sounds like a scenario, but it's a form of opinion in my mind.

I mean how wil we know how space, the planets and different things out there, react to us as we enter into this new world of planets. As you guys mentioned earlier, the buisnessmen will want to get rich off of the new resources, but how would the aliens react.

In my view it would be that we would be invading and taking other races stuff. The buisnessmen will be driven back and (maybe) killed, for what they did. If they bring in troops, it could start a intergalatic war. I know there would probably be a curious race of aliens, but as you said, they would find the majority of the human race is a greedy one, that thinks of only trying to get money. That we also have wars on stupid things such as ethnicity, or land, or some other stupid third reason, and think we're a savage race that fights among each other.

On that note, it could bring them to eliminate the human race, thus bringing the whole idea of traveling to new planets to an end.

But then again, as BlackFang13 put, we're probably talking hundreds of years from now, how will we know how we are in the future.
_________________
Every breath you take brings you one step closer to death, so why think on the negative side.

[BlackFang13]

Oh look, fresh blood! =p (Don't worry, we all have things we don't know)
Lol, no worries, feel free to join in on the spirited debate!
The only problem with the RDA its rather hard to buy a country, they could work as a branch of the government that helps divide up land in auctions…
The idea of a universal alliance seems (to me) to be more likely than us randomly attacking.
The problem with the Zealot idea, is that Zealot gathering enough support (Zealots are a rather fringe) to actually start a war, heck, even if a group Zealots attempted to take ‘justice’ into their own hands the E.G. military would stop them, or if they were too late to stop them the E.G. would help the aliens defeat the Zealots (While political ties may be strained for awhile, banding together to defeat a common enemy would help move reconstruction of the political ties, while also showing to any other fringe group that the E.G. would stand up to any attack upon our little Green/Gray/Blue/Pink/Cyan/Slimy-amorphous-blob allies would end in a swift defeat in the hands of the military!
But, an interplanetary war (especially between an organized military, and a terrorist organization) Would be bloody (Very bloody in the beginning as we figure out what works in space and what doesn’t)(M.A.C.s <3) and would hurt moral rather than help moral.
The idea of organized crime also fits into my terrorist model of what would happen. (At least in moi opinion)(You did bring up the Aliens being the antagonists, I would love to get into that but my fingers are being rather angry with me right now, haha)(But, if you want a good look into that one the Halo books are very good =D)
--
Don’t think I forgot about you Crazy! Sure my fingers are angry with me, but I shall type something!
Planets are more of a mindless pallet, think of them as a canvas, and if they have the right concentrations of the correct elements (Or almost enough) One can being to taraform said planet into something that is live able for human life. And as for planets that aren’t taraform able (Am I even spelling that word right?) than we can make a well… “Bubble” a station that workers can live in while mining the planet for supplies (Though, depending on the time period this could mainly be done by robots, human engineers, and an A.I.)
As for the life part of it, that is more of a tossup when looking at all different factors, is this a species (Like us) with a history of warfare, do they enjoy war, or only do it when threatened, are they peaceful, does their entire planet strictly follow a god, or have no god at all, ect.
Again, when it comes to time, things such as ethnicity will mean less and less (And there is always the idea of the ‘unispicies’) even looking at today ethnicity means a lot less than it did a good twenty to forty years back.
We humans also have a history of war, so who’s to say that we don’t reign victorious in an intergalactic war? We aren’t weak little calves lining up for a slaughter; our species is rather strong, and good at well… killing.
That and, any other life is probably closer in idealism to humans than different. We are not, by nature a greedy species; we are by nature a neutral species and our history has shown for as much evil we have done, we have also done good.

Can’t think of anything else(And my arguments are getting rather, fragmented and random, haha), and my fingers refuse to continue to type, so enjoy picking at all the little weak spots!

[Crazywhitegirl13]

When you say(directed @ Balck Fang) how we would probably reign victorius because we're used to fighting, I think I have to disagree. I mean we would be entering into a war with no godly reason of knowing what kind of weapons they have. If you refer to the new movie [i]Star Trek[/i] (BTW that is probably the best TV series ever in Sci-Fi besides the original Stargate) you have to recognize that we would be like Enterprise going against that Volcan ship that came from the future. They had advanced technology in weapons.

If us as humans, would try to go against alien technology, which is, as everyone knows who watches anything Sci-fi, probably far more than advanced than us. I mean, I geuss we could get a few battles in, but eventually they would either
A) Destroy us with they're weapons.
Hack into our computer system, which almost anyone would use, and bring us down.
C) Send some sort of virus that would wipe us out.

We could go to a planet no one has claimed I suppose, but if we're talking intellectual life forms, they probably have already checked them out and disapproved of them.
_________________
Every breath you take brings you one step closer to death, so why think on the negative side.

[Cat_3]

aliens were mistaken to be gods by ancient humanity.

[BlackFang13]

Crazy, the problem with your idea is that you’re not taking into account that [i]our[/i] technology will also increase,
We aren’t talking meeting aliens in the next ten days, but 500+ years in the future. Our tech won't stay the same; it will continue to increase, hell, even now our weapons are getting stronger every ten or so years. (Granted, the life for a modern gun is fifty years.)
That, and modern guns and weapons and do a heck a lot more damage than your giving them credit for.

Cat 3- Are we talkin’ Indiana Jones now?

[Lackadaisydragon]

( This will be my final post for the night.)

I feel at this point, that nothing I say will be either new or convincing. I still believe, based on history and current workings of society would make it all to easy for a scenario like Avatar to happen.

The final argument I can make to try and make my argument the more believable one is the way, again, history has flown. I will use a few religious figures and fictional characters, as fiction is a reflection of how writers see society, as my examples.

I believe that humans are capable of great good. Consider the figure of Buddah, he brought about a new idea for enlightenment, that it was not achieved through riches or material desires were not what would, in the end, lead to paradise. Two thousand six hundred years later it is only a small number of people who actually live by this idea and those people do not use technology in nearly any form, unless they feel that it's purpose is not frivolous.

The nex figure I think is important is the widely known Jesus. The man was as wise as is possible for a mortal man to be, according to religious texts. His greatest quote to this day is, "He who is without sin may cast the first stone." as he stood guarding a woman, Mary Magdolin, from being stoned to death for adultery. And again, to this day almost no one lives to that standard. ( I am not claiming to live to that standard as I do not, though I would like to say that I try to not act on an initial judgement of a person before interacting with them.)

The next is Joan of Arc. This woman, girl really, led the french into war with the belief, not that they were doing what was right so the english pigs should die, but that she was protecting her homeland from invasion. In the end the [i]French[/i], her people, those she was fighting to protect, turned her over to their enemies. Why? Because the king of France at the time feared her charisma would lead the people of France to reject his rule in favor of hers.

Finally is, thought not specific, the revolution leader found in stories and history. The leader would find a problem with the current workings of the area around him, try to fight against it, ends up with the backing of the majority of the local populace, and changes it for the better... for a time. Afterwards the people the man had fought for would decide that while the freedoms they enjoyed with the absence of whatever force they had fought against, they need to still have some of the rediculous regulations they had suffered under. That builds inroads for all the other rules and dictatorial laws that the leader had fought against and in another thirty years another leader is needed to repeat the process.

This can be further related to the real world with the current legislation. In the Declaration of Independence, as written by the founders of America, says that a person, not defined by skin color or religious beliefs, has the freedoms of speech, religion, and to be heard and respected by their government. Today if you tell someone to screw off with a capital 'F' you will be taken to court for verbal assault, which violates the freedom to speech. Depending on which religion you practice, most notably jeudeism or muslim, you will be either treated like the extremists of that religion would be treated. And this final one is what really gets my goat, the current process of electing the american president is made by an electorate. That means that only a few people in each state [i]actually[/i] decide who they want for president. Traditionally these people will listen to the popular vote of that state, but that is not the point. The point is that each and every voice should be heard, not popular opinion.

And this is what is happening in what the earth considers the free world. It just keeps getting increasingly worse, in my opinion, and I feel that by the time space travel is possible that it will have only gotten worse.

Again, i am hoping for the best case scenario, I hope that when eventually we do find a real life Pandora that we are eco friendly, peaceful, and accepting. I just believe that with the current path society appears to be taking that it will not be like that.
_________________
Epic is spelt A-V-A-T-A-R. Those who disagree will be ignored as spiritual lepers.

Best sentence in the history of mankind- "He went insane for a while but then got bored and regained sanity." - found in the Ben 10 wiki, part of Professor Paradox's history.

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[Son_of_God]

[i]this is a great debate, and i have learned much from reading from both sides. but i am disappointed from the lack of acknowledgment being paid to those who have chosen to join in with supporting comments.

Cat_3 said, and i quote, "aliens were mistaken to be gods by ancient humanity." this comment, alone, is deserving of attention. i personally would disregard this simple misguided statement clearly posted by an idiot; but this debate isn't between myself and the lot...and yes, i kinda contradict myself. but what is humanity if not but one big contradiction?

i urge both parties involved to go back and pay special attention to comments posted by other members, so as to make this discussion that much more valuable to the readers. Do not treat such comments as fleeting thoughts of ideas posed in some movie franchise that should have ended after the 2nd movie, and in which case should have spawned a Short-Round spin-off movie..umm, yes.[/i]

[BlackFang13]

The problem is, there are alternating circumstances for each of your examples.
As for the American one, the electoral college exists because when this country was founded, the average man, [i]was not educated[/i] and it was set up to make sure that the better of the caudate was elected, and couldn't just use the public's ignorance to their advantage.
Yes the system needs revamping; we just have more pressing issues at the moment to take the time to revamp it.
And given the current situation, something like Avatar couldn't happen, for starters you can't [i]buy off[/i] a country, without well... Pissing off the entire country.
Hell, that is true for almost any modern situation; you can’t buy a country that elects a leader, hell, it’s hard to pay off a dictator. Even if you do manage it, there is high chance you will have a revolution on your hands. As I said before, the only way the RDA could exist in reality is if they auctioned off land on planets that are to be used for raw materials. Humans may be greedy, but in almost all cases they will not give up power over an [i]entire[/i] country for money. And they will not go to war, which will cost them trillions and humans lives, which will quickly lost public support, to get more raw materials, it’s not a sound investment. You attack some planet, even if you attempt to set the inhabitance up as savages you already have the entire scientific community against you, it will be unpopular among about, half of your normal civilians, especially if victory isn’t won over the ‘lowly savages’ within one to two months. Yes, Avatar did have an... Interesting plot line, but not one that could truly happen, it can only work if humans are inherently evil and greedy, which they aren’t. We have the tendencies, but that doesn’t mean that we are greedy, bloodthirsty, and idiotic, since we also, constantly show the opposite of these traits (Charities, Medicare, Medicaid, ect. )(Hell, after Katrina [i]Cuba[/i] even offered us aid!), stating that humans are one or the other is showing an over simplification of human nature.

Yes man is capable of great evil, the opposite is just as true, man is not good nor is it evil, man is neutral. The thing is, if you look at the history of humanity, you see a history of injustice, or better put, a history of overcoming injustice, yes we have flaws, but we are humans, it’s what makes us interesting. And as we continue to add years of advancement, we can only continue to strive forward, we as a species always have strived to become better than what we are currently, yes the paths have been different, and yes, some roads are better than others, but we are pushing forward not digressing.
(I have no clue how badly this is written, I’m too tired, I should have waited to type it up, haha)
(Son 'o God, we can only get so many talking points in and things like that tend to slip through the cracks, please remember we are only human! Yes yes, the horrable pun was intended)

[Son_of_God]

[i]go screw...make me a footnote in your comment...how dare[/i]

[Lackadaisydragon]

Sorry I'm a day late. Long day yesterday.

Anyways, I really don't have any new arguments and I don't like to recycle previous talking points.

I do feel however I should properly explain the whole 'Buying a Government' thing so that it's more easily understood.

In Avatar the RDA did not just simply buy out the government, like I said without adding anymore detail than that,it was more along the lines of it buying out the debts the government owned. This was publicly known and considered a good thing. Better to owe an american company money than an outside nation.

This public acceptance allowed for the company to more easily take over the governement. It would start gradually with the company pushing the government gently to let them do this or that, things that would be accepted but investigated. It would climb gradually from there until the government was basically a figure head. from there it could easily buy the controlling stalks in every company in the world that they would feel were making a step in the right direction. The Resources Development Administration would repeat the process it mapped out with America and take over the other countries until it quite litterally ruled the world. The citizens would accept this because the RDA would have made life easier, richer, more comfortable, at thee expense of freedoms that they could convince the majority were unimportant anyway while pandering to the cries of the old conservatives at the same time.

At this time the only thing seperating us from a world where a single company has taken over everything is a company with the will to due such a take over.

And before you mention it, there was a small rebellious group. They were however tracked very carefully using every expense needed and labeled as terrorists to get the majority of the citizenry to reject them.

This, according to what I see in the world right now, is a completely viable outcome.

This is my final argument for this and I thank you for indulging me in this flight of fancy.

Also, before I forget:

The Reason I did not delegate any part of my time to the comment that Ancient civilizations saw aliens and considered them gods was because I did not consider it relavent to the topic currently under debate except in a small and unrealistic scenario that I feel lacks the need to be mentioned.

Crazywhitegirl13's comment I felt was fantastically handled before I needed to say anything.
_________________
Epic is spelt A-V-A-T-A-R. Those who disagree will be ignored as spiritual lepers.

Best sentence in the history of mankind- "He went insane for a while but then got bored and regained sanity." - found in the Ben 10 wiki, part of Professor Paradox's history.

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[Brianhjh]

tl;dr


Humans' ability to harm and kill other human being is actually a fantastic ability. As the earth's only animal without predators, without our self-predatory habits we would have overgrazed ourselves to death long time ago.
_________________
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/Brianhjh/emesprani151.gif[/img] "Sarah's future makes me sad." - Benk

[BlackFang13]

The problem with the RDA is that, for starters, it only works if the company has a monopoly within the country. (A monopoly is something that we currently do not have, and we have laws in place that keep such a thing from happening) To where they could make the hell load of money needed to induce a planetary- no, even a nationwide takeover of a government (Weirdly worded, haha) (but, I digress, back on to the actual debate, we are talking, trillions upon trillions of dollars, with trillions more needed [i]every[/i] year, our governments spend a loootttt of money to keep a country ticking along.) Even if they were able to mop up the U.S. government’s dept, there would a good one third (To around a half) of the population who would find it [i]worse[/i] to owe a company than an outside nation (An outside nation at least understands the “If I collapse, not only do you not get your money back, your goin’ down with me buddy-boy!” mentality of how this world works). That and there are many who would cry out against losing freedoms (Yes, you can point to the Bush administration for a counter point, but that idea was being “Safe” while the RDA was making people “Happy” so the circumstances are different, along with the fact that one was an elected U.S. president and the other is a non-elected company with horribly inflated prices on whatever they must be selling to make the money to even attempt to mop up the debts of the U.S. government. ) and outrage grows worse still when the fact that the U.S. government is little more than a puppet government (We Americans are idiots from time to time, but we are patriotic idiots) is pushed into the light by the same people pointing out the horrors at the stealing of American freedoms.

Hell, turning the U.S. government into a puppet government is a feet onto itself, we aren’t taking about a static dictatorship, or a ‘republic’ that already has a puppet master, but a dynamic government that has our tree little branches that keeps everything in check, before the RDA could complete its slow takeover (Given how fast our government moves normally, taking it over slowly, would be rather… Painfully, horrifically, slow.) A government that is based upon the feelings of the people, and even a one third split can derail the RDA’s take over, as the people could easily put in a guy who is against what the RDA is doing. (Depending on which states that those that are against the RDA is centered, a person could run on the ‘anti-RDA’ platform and with the help of the Electoral College, they could win. (That and the Platform itself would start a nationwide debate that could bring to light what the RDA is really doing, and change them from the benevolent light up helping the government with its debts to a malicious ‘attempting to over throw the United States government’, needless to say, the word “[i]treason[/i]” would be thrown around quite a lot.)

You are quite welcome, it was fun!

-Brian, I don’t really have much to say on that, I do agree with the point. Though, disease has claimed a few lives as well. (Yes, yes, we were a tad long, wern't we?)(Oh, how is the Web Comic going?)

[CiaphasCain]

Sure is tl;dr in here, jesus