Dolls, a big problem.

KisaShika · Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:36 pm Post subject:

[quote="London"]Then when you find one, bring it to the attention of Battou or Strata or somebody.[/quote]

[quote="KisaShika"]Well, theres a problem with that. I already told Battou about them through a PM; and he said that they were allowed.[/quote]

Well, the doll bases are copyrighted to the creator of said base, correct? And if a FAC dweller decided to take upon themselves to take the image/base/doll add hair and clothes to it, then go on to post it and just give a link to where they got the base(after erasing the real artists signature) and say that the character is either theirs or some other artists, shouldn't it count as an edit?

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Stratadrake · Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject:

You're mixing too many things together.

One. If anyone creates work based on the other artist and claims the result as totally their own, even if there is no copyright violated they should still be given a long walk off a short plank. Plaigarising where credit is due is a serious violation of artist etiquette, [b]period[/b].

Two. Not all edits are equal. We already have one context where edits are allowed, after all -- if artist A creates a lineart specifically for other users to color, as long as artist B links to that and otherwise abides by A's rules, should we staff members consider it a violation simply and solely because "it's an edit"? So, in this context the rule is that you need to get permission from the original owner. It's a simple rule, and can easily be expanded and applied to other forms of "edits".

There's more, but those two are enough for now.
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KisaShika · Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject:

But I am not talking about collabarations or anything of the such; I am talking about these.

http://lorelei.mystarseed.com/mine.php

Alot of members on FAC are taking these images, editing them, and posting them. Dose that not count as editing? I think it does, and they should not be allowed.

That is what this thread is about; not collabarations, posting your own dolls, or generators; about editing dolls and people posting them.

Stratadrake · Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:20 pm Post subject:

So you're just saying, we should exempt pixel dolls from the already existing guidelines on editing and collabs in general, and make a new rule specifically against them? Right, but why?

And I really doubt this is as big or problematic an issue as you believe it to be.
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KisaShika · Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:32 pm Post subject:

Hey, if you want me to proove my point. I will collect all the ones I've seen and then some; but that's only if you want me to.

No, if you created the pixel, you should be allowed to post it; but if you just dressed it, you shouldn't. Don't ban the privelage from the people who have talent with pixels, just the ones who have no creativity and just put clothes on dolls.

Like I said before; if you didn't draw it(or color it), you shouldn't be allowed to post it; right? Isn't that what the rules basically state?

Kyuu · Very bored Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 176

Most sites with bases allow permission for those who want to "dress" them to post them elswhere as long as it's right fully credited. That's pretty much the entire purpose of bases; to let others use them.
The two dolls in my gallery are credited and I've notified and linked the base artists to the bases I used respectively and they've not had a problem with it, so how could that not be considered a collaboration?

However, if this is seriously bothing people, I'd have no probalm deleting them from my gallery.

London · Moderator Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 6474

Sometimes people like on dA or something will post up some lineart they're too bored with to colour and will let other people take their lines and colour them. This is essentially what you're doing.

Sometimes people communicate and work together to create one thing. One person draws the figure and one the background, or one does the lines and one colours. Something like that. This is a collaboration.
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Kyuu · Very bored Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 176

Well, I [i]have [/i]communicated with them, which is probably more than most of the other "dollers" on FAC can say. I've gotten their permission to use and post their base, so I don't see the problem. But like I said, if this is ultimately banhammer'd, then I will remove them without complaint.

London · Moderator Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 6474

Your communication consists of asking for permission. It's not like

A: HEY LET'S DRAW SOMETHING
B: OKAY WHAT
A: UHH. MARIO.
B: OKAY. I'LL DO THE LINES.
A: KK. I'LL GO DIG UP MY PRISMACOLORS.

that.
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Kyuu · Very bored Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 176

I'm aware, but permission is permission. I'm just looking at the broad perspective.

London · Moderator Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 6474

Permission from the artist does not override FAC rules.
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Kyuu · Very bored Joined: 24 Aug 2005 Posts: 176

Yes, I understand. I suppose this is why it's caused this controversy.

Stratadrake · Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject:

Bladerwolfbane is one user with a lot of pixel-doll submissions. I probably should've asked her if she wants to attend, but oh well.

[quote]I'm just looking at the broad perspective.[/quote]
So am I. Obligations of being a moderator/admin and all.

And speaking of the big picture....
[quote]Hey, if you want me to proove my point. I will collect all the ones I've seen and then some; but that's only if you want me to.[/quote]
If you're willing to take time searching, Kisa, just browse recent pictures from the month of December and let me know how many you find. I know it's just a mere sampling, but that will give you a good measure of how often pixel-doll submissions actually occur on an ordinary, day-to-day basis on FAC. Besides, I wager at least 100 doodly Sonic OC's for every pixel-doll submission. (Ante up...)

[quote]Your communication consists of asking for permission.[/quote]
Explicit permission is the gold standard here, but it's equally as hard to actually verify from the staff perspective. Ultimately it is only as trustworthy as the user who claims to have gone to the trouble of getting it.
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KisaShika · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject:

Stratadrake · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject:

Sorting that list by chrono and inserting dividers at where it crosses each month.

In other words, I'm counting 8 dolled submissions from the month of December.

There were over six [i]thousand[/i] submissions last December. That's a percentage of... what, 0.125% ?

[quote]And as you can tell, alot of them are by the same people.[/quote]
Which is [b]precisely[/b] why, viewed from the big picture, they aren't so much of a problem at all.
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Brianhjh · Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject:

Church's face looks squished.

to think, if this thread hadn't existed, Strata could approve... 30 more pictures.
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