Xenosaga

Fayore · Moderator Joined: 12 Mar 2004 Posts: 6195

Xenosaga. This series has always been highly controversial, starting with Xenogears back when the PSX was all the rage.

Okay, I haven't played that one. But Xenosaga, yeah? The developer has made the game into a great likeness of Nietzsche's ideals. I mean, when the games thus far are named "Der Wille zur Macht", "Jenseits von Gut und Bose", and "Also
Sprach Zarathustra", you know there's an overlying theme. 8D Tribute to Nietzsche, as it were.

Anyway. I love the storyline. I've always loved sci-fi. <3 Plus, it has chaos-kun. :< Although I really hated the second game. It's so bad; most people believe that it's just a bridge between Xenosaga I and Xenosaga III. Just wraps up a piece of backstory that probably didn't even need its own game. Although it [i]does[/i] leave a lot of open ends for the third game (bridge). DX

There's lots of theories being thrown around for the third game~ Anyone got any they want to share?

Or just about Xenosaga in general?
_________________
[url=http://vdexproject.net/user.php?user=15636][img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/trainer.png[/img]
[img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/partymini.png[/img][/url]

Astri · Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject:

Any theories? --.-- Hmm...let me think...

I'm not sure about theories, so much, but there were two major things I noticed in the first game. I am a Xenogears obsessive, and I know the opening movie by heart. And let me tell you, when I first played Xenosaga and saw that the password into KOS-MOS' mind was "Ye shall be as gods," I totally flipped out. Because in the opening to Xenogears, a huge spaceship transporting an inconceivably deadly being known as Deus is taken over by Deus and destroyed--and what flashes across every screen in the entire spaceship, line after line after line, burying the last frantic attempts of the crew to bring things back under control beneath a grave of blood-red print?

"Ye shall be as gods."

Which makes me wonder if Deus--that gigantic, super-powered, life-and-death, decomposing, cryogenically-frozen monstrosity--has something to do with KOS-MOS.

And secondly, Nephilim--or is she just the representation of Nephilim? I'm still not quite sure--looks EXACTLY like Elly, the main female character from Xenogears. And Elly (MAJOR SPOILER) is a template of Persona, the first human ever to exist on the world Xenogears takes place on, who was created by Deus. And although she's had many reincarnations throughout the ages, she has always looked exactly the same.

So let's see here. Nephilim came before KOS-MOS who influenced Deus who made Persona who became Elly who looks like Nephilim.

I don't know about you, but I seriously want to know more about Nephilim.

Oh yes--and on top of that, in Xenogears, one of the characters is named Citan Uzuki. Except (ANOTHER SPOILER) that's not his real name, but an alias. Somebody wanna explain to me why he took the last name of the main character from Xenosaga?

Citan Uzuki...Shion Uzuki.

Think about it.
_________________
[color=blue]Disgaea's [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-31977.html]Overlords Dance[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25745.html]Worlds Beyond Infinity[/url] while [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-27428.html]Mifuyus Magical Multiplying Mole[/url] reads the epic [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25652.html]Chronicles of Yord[/url], and you learn that your [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37925.html]Craving[/url] for [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37922.html]Finding a Heart of Snow[/url] is [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37924.html]Taboo[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37910.html]VG[/url] unless you dare undertake [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-32962.html]The Combine of Sin[/url]...[/color]

Fayore · Moderator Joined: 12 Mar 2004 Posts: 6195

I only wish I could get what you're trying to imply. Laughing

I haven't played Xenogears (although I certainly wish I could =_=; ), but I've heard quite a lot of good things about it. And definitely the Elly = Nephilim thing.

[quote]Which makes me wonder if Deus--that gigantic, super-powered, life-and-death, decomposing, cryogenically-frozen monstrosity--has something to do with KOS-MOS.[/quote]

Definitely. It doesn't help that Wilhelm and the rest of his Testaments drop hints as big as anvils every now and then: "Now we only have to wait for the other to awaken."

... xD Pure speculation of course, but I think that might point to Deus since you mentioned that it was cryogenically-frozen.

I want to know so much more about all the characters! Especially the Testaments, and Wilhelm and chaos' relationship. I also want to know a bit more about Xenogears. ^^;

_________________
[url=http://vdexproject.net/user.php?user=15636][img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/trainer.png[/img]
[img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/partymini.png[/img][/url]

SilentSoul92 · Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 2:37 pm Post subject:

I have Xenogears, but not Xenosaga (or was it the other way around) either way, I've barely started before I started playing Radiata Stories and that got me hooked on it and then there was SHadow of the Colluses and a whole mess of new games. In short, I have it but I've never played it.

Astri · Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject:

SilentSoul92--if it's Xenogears or Xenosaga number one, you must play it! If it's Xenosaga number two, take it back and spend the money somewhere better...

Fayore--There's supposedly a "black KOS-MOS" in Xenosaga 3. I think Wilhelm's "Now we have only to wait for the other to awaken" refers to this KOS-MOS. Unfortunately, I have no idea what this black KOS-MOS is supposed to be or do or anything...

As for implications, I'm not really trying to imply, because I don't really have any definitive ideas, but considering that Xenogears takes place, what, several thousand years after Xenosaga...

Hold on, lemme give a little background--I promise to try and keep it short. (MAJOR spoilers here, sorry...)

XenoGEARS was made BEFORE XenoSAGA, but takes place AFTER it. XenoSAGA (capitals to help me keep things straight) takes place before the world that XenoGEARS takes place on has been populated by any humans whatsoever. Humanity, in XenoGEARS, came to be when a spaceship transporting the incredibly dangerous and powerful creature known as Deus crashed on a planet (the planet Xenogears takes place on). Deus created from amid the wreckage of the spaceship a woman named Persona, who began (gave birth?) to the first humans. Her DNA template has been passed down in all women as a female factor called Miang. The female character, Elly, has incredible Ether power and potential because of a combination of that Miang factor and something called the Urobolus Ring, which is never fully explained --.-- Anyways, Elly is also apparently special because she has been constantly reincarnated through the lifetime of the planet, always under different names but always as an extremely influential woman who has always looked the same.

WHOA! Now that I write that down, maybe the Urobolus Ring in Elly's DNA has something to do with Nephilim! That might explain her incredible Ether power and constant reincarnation!

What precisely is Nephilim? If they explain it, I've forgotten. Is she a machine, a program, a spirit, or what? She might have influenced KOS-MOS in some way, and IF she did and IF KOS-MOS has something to do with Deus and IF that tenuous connection could actually cast Nephilim down through thousands of years to Elly...

I don't think that KOS-MOS IS Deus, though, because KOS-MOS is definitely mechanical and Deus is definitely biological. Is there any person who has a particular connection to Nephilim?

Hmm...doesn't Albedo have a connection to Nephilim? Could Albedo maybe be Deus? I mean, he can't die, right? If he were to mutate further for some reason, perhaps from extreme contact with U-DO, then he might transform into the titanic mass of flesh that is Deus...

That'd be one hell of a mutation, considering that Deus is bigger than the robot Gears in Xenogears, and Gears are (I think) at least twice as big as the AGWS in Xenosaga. But it does make an odd amount of sense...

Hum. The Zohar things bug me too. Particularly because the places you're allowed to save in Xenosaga (Memory Cubes) look exactly like the Zohar. And on top of that, in Xenogears, the special Anima Relics which transform Gears into the super-powered Omnigears share the same names as the AGWS in Xenosaga 2. Specifically, KOS-MOS', which shares the same name as the Anima Relic of Elly's Omnigear El Regulus--Dinah. Another connection between KOS-MOS and Elly.

Uh...wow, I've babbled a lot. I'll shut up now. But still...wow. Is that weird or what?
_________________
[color=blue]Disgaea's [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-31977.html]Overlords Dance[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25745.html]Worlds Beyond Infinity[/url] while [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-27428.html]Mifuyus Magical Multiplying Mole[/url] reads the epic [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25652.html]Chronicles of Yord[/url], and you learn that your [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37925.html]Craving[/url] for [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37922.html]Finding a Heart of Snow[/url] is [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37924.html]Taboo[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37910.html]VG[/url] unless you dare undertake [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-32962.html]The Combine of Sin[/url]...[/color]

Fayore · Moderator Joined: 12 Mar 2004 Posts: 6195

Personally, I think the dialogue between chaos and Wilhelm plus the meeting with the Testaments at the end of XS2 made it all worth the pain and agony of the gameplay I had to go through, but that's just me.

...Then again, I only bought the game because I wanted the "movie dvd" that came with it. Ahh, Hoshi Souichirou...<3

"black KOSMOS"? I forgot her name. :/ T-elos, I think. She could be the other one, although it made me rather irritated because we have no information of her existance before XS3. Bad planning. :(

...

Namco needs to work on their XS3 website more. DX But at least they updated the character section! Allen, T-elos, and E.S.Dinah (evidently, there's something special about this AGWS... xD) weren't there the list time I looked. Of course, Allen doesn't even get a new costume... DX

...Aw. They replaced the art for Shion and KOSMOS with cg models. DX And of course, this game has more fanservice than ever... I don't really like the fanservice theye're doing; I think it rather marrs the complex storyline quite a bit.

Anyway.

Skimmed her (T-elos) character page a little. She apparently has the ability to output 3 times the strength of the Hilbert Effect that KOSMOS can. o_o I might translate a bit later. :X Looked a bit at Dinah's page, too. Something about "Ein Sof" saying something about it becoming as gods, and that it uses an "Anima Reactor"... More stuff, but I'm lazy and can't be bothered to translate because I suck that much. DX

The only person with a noticeable connection to Nephilim (other than KOSMOS and Shion) is chaos, and with that, likely the rest of the Testaments. Another Testament, Virgil, knows Febronia, too... I think it's been mentioned that Dr. Mizrahi "discovered" (?) the Song of Nephilim, so I'd like to see how that bit pieces together, as well. Why it calls the Gnosis and all that. And we still have no knowledge of the data he recorded in MOMO... :/ They haven't really explained anything about her except that it takes her a great deal of power to exist in the material world, so she can't do it for long. I think.

Even though the end of XS2 makes Albedo look like he's died, I really think he's probably still out there somewhere. I think your Albedo = Deus has a bit of weight going. :0
_________________
[url=http://vdexproject.net/user.php?user=15636][img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/trainer.png[/img]
[img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/partymini.png[/img][/url]

Astri · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject:

ANIMA REACTOR!!! HA!!! I knew there was something going on there. Another of my "Whoa, did you just get an electric shock or an idea?" moments, since my friend Sarah was playing X2 when I found out about the ES Dinah. Hmm.

I think they said somewhere that Albedo was, if not back, definitely still existing somehow...so he might be Deus...or maybe Virgil or (AAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!) even chaos...I hope it's not chaos. chaos is nice, cool, strong, and really really good-looking ^.^

I agree with you that the fanservice is getting kind of ridiculous. Who the hell goes tripping around space fighting evil spiritual baddies wearing Shion's new outfit? Or her X2 one, for that matter? I thought the swimsuits were good enough.

Sigh.

No kidding about the bad planning. I was hoping that they might remake Xenogears, because when they were making it the first time something went wrong and they ended up cutting most of what they wanted to put in the second disc out. Like, this character named Maria (my favorite ^.^ A little girl with a gigantic super-powered nukes-the-entire-field-in-a-single-shot robot) was supposed to get an Omnigear, but they cut it out. Which really sucked. And the story they were trying to do for the second disc got squashed down majorly. Grr. Stupid time and cost constraints.

I wonder what's going to happen to MOMO? I like her too, even though they totally killed her in X2. She lost her cuteness, her flowerness, and her good voice actress...(ears bleed) I don't know enough to even formulate theories about her. I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

Whew. That's all I've got...for now...
_________________
[color=blue]Disgaea's [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-31977.html]Overlords Dance[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25745.html]Worlds Beyond Infinity[/url] while [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-27428.html]Mifuyus Magical Multiplying Mole[/url] reads the epic [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25652.html]Chronicles of Yord[/url], and you learn that your [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37925.html]Craving[/url] for [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37922.html]Finding a Heart of Snow[/url] is [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37924.html]Taboo[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37910.html]VG[/url] unless you dare undertake [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-32962.html]The Combine of Sin[/url]...[/color]

SilentSoul92 · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject:

I have the first game. Just a side note Der Wille zur Macht, Jenseits von Gut und Bose, and Sprach Zarathustra. Aren't those all in German?

Astri · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject:

Yup, they are. Xenogears/ saga has always had a German-ish connection thing. In Xenogears, Elly's full name is Elhaym von Houten, Maria's full name is Maria Balthasar, and I [i]think[/i] the majority of the Gears' names are in German as well (Stier, Seibzehn, Vierge). Dunno precisely why. The Rhapsody/ La Pucelle/ Disgaea/ Phantom Brave/ Makai Kingdom games seem to have several French references, so...
_________________
[color=blue]Disgaea's [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-31977.html]Overlords Dance[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25745.html]Worlds Beyond Infinity[/url] while [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-27428.html]Mifuyus Magical Multiplying Mole[/url] reads the epic [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25652.html]Chronicles of Yord[/url], and you learn that your [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37925.html]Craving[/url] for [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37922.html]Finding a Heart of Snow[/url] is [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37924.html]Taboo[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37910.html]VG[/url] unless you dare undertake [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-32962.html]The Combine of Sin[/url]...[/color]

SilentSoul92 · Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject:

I know Phantom Brave seems to have some French connections. Not a whole lot though.

I don't like Deus.

I just started Xenogears. There's quite a time gap between Xenogears and Xenosaga, isn't there. Or maybe it's because I haven't played all the games yet.

Fayore · Moderator Joined: 12 Mar 2004 Posts: 6195

[quote="SilentSoul92 (Rita)"] I have the first game. Just a side note Der Wille zur Macht, Jenseits von Gut und Bose, and Sprach Zarathustra. Aren't those all in German? [/quote]
Indeed. Those are all the names of some of the famous published works of the world-renowned Friedrich [i]Wilhelm[/i] Nietzsche, a German philosopher. He was an existentialist. :mellow:

Der Wille zur Macht = The Will to Power (likely Nietzsche's most famous work, it outlines the idea that all people, whether unconsciously or not, want to have at least some bit of power, and that is more important than merely surviving)

Jenseits von Gut und Bose = Beyond Good and Evil (outlines the idea that all people are equally capable of good and evil, and attacked Christianity quite a bit)

Also Sprach Zarathustra = Thus Spoke Zarathustra (a fictitious chronicle of the travels of the prophet Zarathustra (or Zoroaster), and it puts forth the idea that humans are a transition between apes and bermensch, or "supermen")

Please explain the Anima Reactors. I don't know what they are. DX

lmao, chaos is my favourite character. xD I really doubt he's Deus, though, because he seems to be an extremely important figure in the Testaments, and his real name... :0

Okay, on second thought, maybe. But I still doubt it. Or maybe it's just wishful thinking. XD
_________________
[url=http://vdexproject.net/user.php?user=15636][img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/trainer.png[/img]
[img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/partymini.png[/img][/url]

Jeli · Member Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 105

Hmm...the Testaments...I think they're kinda like a reference of the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. Their colors match up, except for the Black Horse and the Blue Testament. Then again, they could also be a reference to the four Archangels.

I also wonder who could the Red and White Testament could be...

Fayore · Moderator Joined: 12 Mar 2004 Posts: 6195

It's popular opinion/"knowledge" that the Red Testament is Kevin, and the White Testament is Albedo. :X
_________________
[url=http://vdexproject.net/user.php?user=15636][img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/trainer.png[/img]
[img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/partymini.png[/img][/url]

Astri · Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject:

Aha. So that's where the names come from. And the Testament thing makes sense as well, although my ideas on the Testaments are fuzzy at best.

[quote][b]SilentSoul92[/b]
There's quite a time gap between Xenogears and Xenosaga, isn't there.[/quote]

Yeah, there is. Several thousand years at least, I think. Let me know how Xenogears is going for you ~.^ I hope you like it, I know I really do...

And Fayore? I agree with you on chaos totally. And I mean totally. :wub:
_________________
[color=blue]Disgaea's [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-31977.html]Overlords Dance[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25745.html]Worlds Beyond Infinity[/url] while [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-27428.html]Mifuyus Magical Multiplying Mole[/url] reads the epic [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25652.html]Chronicles of Yord[/url], and you learn that your [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37925.html]Craving[/url] for [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37922.html]Finding a Heart of Snow[/url] is [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37924.html]Taboo[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37910.html]VG[/url] unless you dare undertake [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-32962.html]The Combine of Sin[/url]...[/color]

SilentSoul92 · Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:23 pm Post subject:

You people confuse me. :s

Still, Xenogears really is a lot fo fun. I started playing Xenosaga, but since I didn't finish Xenogears first, I decided to put it on hold. Don't want to spoil anything for myself. ^_^

Honjetan · Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:29 pm Post subject:

I'm stuck on Xenogears. However, I had no idea that Xenogears and Xenosaga were in relation to each other. What a surprise.
_________________
I speak only at the most opportune of moments.

Jeli · Member Joined: 31 Dec 2005 Posts: 105

It's said that chaos is like the "Jesus" of Xenosaga because he was called "Yeshua" (Said to have been the Hebrew name for Jesus of Nazareth. Also another name for Joshua who is described in conjunction with Abel or lamentation and Abel's Ark or the Ark of the Covenant.)

As for the Red Testament, it makes sense that Kevin could be it, but I heard that it could also be Joachim Mizrahi because they saw some "white hair" in some trailers. I'm not quite sure myself.

Fayore · Moderator Joined: 12 Mar 2004 Posts: 6195

White hair? Wouldn't that be for Albedo, the White Testament? I heard that there was a shot of him removing the mask in the trailer (which I [i]still[/i] haven't seen). :< The board I visited was almost certain that the Red Testament was Kevin. :X

...Well, now I've seen one, having abandoned writing this post just to go find one. :0 So far I've only looked at the one for game play, and it looks stunning. :0 And the battle system doesn't look as hacked-up as XS2's was.

And I'm still amazed that they gave chaos pants. :0 Not that I'm upset, or anything... <3
_________________
[url=http://vdexproject.net/user.php?user=15636][img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/trainer.png[/img]
[img]http://vdexproject.net/p/15636/partymini.png[/img][/url]

Astri · Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:36 am Post subject:

The gameplay looks better? Thank God... (sigh of relief)

[quote][b]Jeli[/b]
It's said that chaos is like the "Jesus" of Xenosaga...[/quote]

Does that mean he's going to die? I hope not...that would really suck. Grr!

_________________
[color=blue]Disgaea's [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-31977.html]Overlords Dance[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25745.html]Worlds Beyond Infinity[/url] while [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-27428.html]Mifuyus Magical Multiplying Mole[/url] reads the epic [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-25652.html]Chronicles of Yord[/url], and you learn that your [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37925.html]Craving[/url] for [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37922.html]Finding a Heart of Snow[/url] is [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37924.html]Taboo[/url] in [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-37910.html]VG[/url] unless you dare undertake [url=http://www.fanart-central.net/story-32962.html]The Combine of Sin[/url]...[/color]

SilentSoul92 · Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:48 am Post subject:

I think it's kind of implied that he's going to die. Or perhaps that's just me. I'll go find some sites about it...

Great, no absolute answer. Some people think he will, some think he won't. Oh well, we'll have to wait and see, huh?