"perfect"

silver_dreams · Elder Than Dirt Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 5102

This is basically in response to the growing number of mary-sues and 'perfect' characters out there.

I have seen a lot of characters in original fiction and books alike who are so absolutely perfect that they seem like the model-whatever.

Truth is, shockingly, PEOPLE ARE NOWHERE NEAR PERFECT. So why should characters be?

Let's take the stereotypical hero/heroine of a story for an example; brave, smart, sexy, loved, and idolized. Everything most people strive to be.

Sure, it sounds good in theory, but would it really work out?

Say you're basing a character on yourself. Of course, your first reaction is to make yourself everything you've every dreamed of, as close to 'perfect' as you can get. The ass-kicking heroine with tons of hot men after her, the guy that every woman dreams of; once again, they sound good in theory, but perfect characters are as unbelievable as you can get.

Even if you're writing a fiction story, it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be realistic. Don't be afraid to give characters flaws; perhaps they have a secret love for the enemy, or a weakness for beef jerky. The more flawed and [i]im[/i]perfect a character is, the more that both you and the readers can relate to them.

Let's go back the the hero/herione thing. People have flaws, so why shouldn't they? Maybe their powers don't work if they've eaten swiss cheese that day, or they are deathly afraid of trees. The best part about giving the characters fears and flaws is you get to play around with them, have fun with it. Having the hero have to overcome his fear of spiders to defeat a villan will give you a lot better plot than the fearless hero who jsut beats every bad guy into the ground without second thought.

NOw back to creating a character based on yourself. If they're based on you, why not give them some of your less appealing personality traits? A bad temper, a tendancy for violence, clumsiness, a certain phrase or saying they repeat alot. They don't have to be EXACTLY like you, but you might as well try and make them vaguely similar.

After all, having characters you can relate to through certain personality traits makes it much easier to write.

KFelidae · Still very bored Joined: 19 May 2004 Posts: 295

Ahhhhhh... so, indeed, there is another Mary Sue rant!

Yay!

You bring up a few points I didn't, like how a [i]little[/i] imprinting of yourself on characters is okay, and makes them easier to write, and slightly more beleivable. Totally agree there.

*happy sigh* Now if only other people could get the message and stop inserting characters that are as 3D as a comic book backing...

-KF

RiRiana · Very bored Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 161

I completely agree with you. Charaters need to seem way more realistic then people write them. But sometime you have to be careful with making them overdone. I was reading a Holes fanstory on FF.net and the author gave the main chacter so many flaws, it made you hate her. I found it completely stupid that her character had such a deep loathing feeling towards everything around her. Characters like that are way to over done and that bothers me too. Its like a complete anti-Mary Sue, so it seems like an evil Mary Sue...so scary.

Anywho, I'd also just like to mention that although Mary Sue stories are lame, there are way too many MS flamers out there who crush the developing authors before they get enough experience to write something realistic, and that is even more lame than a Mary Sue author.

You have to give authors a chance to grow through fanfiction, and it doesn't help at all to flame their stories, no matter how ridiculously stupid they may be.

KFelidae · Still very bored Joined: 19 May 2004 Posts: 295

If someone is flaming another author's work, then indeed, they have no place in a writing community themselves!

My policy as far as Mary Sue stories is simply "leave it alone". Unless the writer really has some talent hidden deep down, I usually don't leave a comment. If they are secretly a good writer, then perhaps constructive critizism is the best route.

-KF

PandaPants · Member Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 67

[i]PP: Yay! More rants on Mary Sues! Aaah, I never tire of reading these...

Oi! Does anyone know a way to test if your characters are Mary Sues/Gary Stus? I'm a little wary on my roleplaying characters, you see... ::sweatdrops:: Sorry if I'm horribly off-topic. I'll leave now... >>;;[/i]

silver_dreams · Elder Than Dirt Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 5102

o.o not sure how one woudl tell...if they're 'perfect', always suceeding, with little/no flaws?

PandaPants · Member Joined: 31 Dec 1969 Posts: 67

[i]PP: Yay for offtopicness!

Well~ My current roleplay character is an albino boy with excellent eyesight (for an albino. 20/40), a fear of sunlight (it burns him horribly), and a huge-arse tattoo that goes down/up (never figured that out) his left side. He's very antisocial due to being ostracized by his peers at a young age for looking different, but terribly 'clingy' at the same time. If someone shows a slight interest in him, especially if it's because of his bizarre looks, he locks onto them and refuses to let go. Very stubborn, he is. ::nods:: Family history varies with the rules of the roleplay thread I'm in, but under normal circumstances, he's a demon/human hybrid.

AAAAH~! My mom just showed up! I gotta scat! Ciao~![/i]

silver_dreams · Elder Than Dirt Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 5102

o.o seriously...that's anything but...

LadyoftheDeadlyDance · Forum Stalker Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 1144

Indeed o.o Quite good, he's been given flaws, yet isn't "evil". ^^

My RP characters tend to be insane, so...yeah. ^^;;;

silver_dreams · Elder Than Dirt Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 5102

[quote="LadyoftheDeadlyDance (LDD)"]
My RP characters tend to be insane, so...yeah. ^^;;; [/quote]
no, really? :rolleyes:

jeez, just one look at Val's profile is enough to show how insane your characters can get..

though my characters are just as bad sometimes ^^;;

LadyoftheDeadlyDance · Forum Stalker Joined: 13 May 2004 Posts: 1144

[quote="silver_dreams (Silver)"] [quote="LadyoftheDeadlyDance (LDD)"]
My RP characters tend to be insane, so...yeah. ^^;;; [/quote]
no, really? :rolleyes:

jeez, just one look at Val's profile is enough to show how insane your characters can get..

though my characters are just as bad sometimes ^^;; [/quote]
Now tell me just how a bi-sexual, crossdressing vampire with a fetish for whips and big Macs, who treats his boyfriend like a personal f**k puppet is insane?

Rolling eyes

silver_dreams · Elder Than Dirt Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 5102

[quote="LadyoftheDeadlyDance (LDD)"] [quote="silver_dreams (Silver)"] [quote="LadyoftheDeadlyDance (LDD)"]
My RP characters tend to be insane, so...yeah. ^^;;; [/quote]
no, really? :rolleyes:

jeez, just one look at Val's profile is enough to show how insane your characters can get..

though my characters are just as bad sometimes ^^;; [/quote]
Now tell me just how a bi-sexual, crossdressing vampire with a fetish for whips and big Macs, who treats his boyfriend like a personal f**k puppet is insane?

Rolling eyes

[/quote]
no more than the female vampire who finds it fun to jump anyone she can and raise as much hell as possible all while being slutty as possible?

don't even get me started on Aiden Rolling eyes

dolphinprincess · Posted: Thu Nov 04, 2004 7:24 am Post subject:

Well duh, characters can't be perfect. They never are perfect. So why are you making a big deal about it? I see nothing about it that can be so life threatening.
_________________
It took me about ten minutes to defeat Giga Bowser, Ganondorf, and Mewtwo from Super Smash Brothers Melee using Peach.
How long did it take my brother to defeat those characters using Yoshi? Two minutes.
I like to obsess over stuff. Here are all the things I'm obsessing over:
Song: Seize the Day by Default
Anime: D.Gray Man
Anime character(s): Kanda
Video Game: Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Video Game character: Wolf O-Donnell from Star Fox Assault
OC: Ray Eclrida, copyright of me (duh!)
OC Quote: "No, he just keeps getting beaten in the head with his own stupidity."-Ray Eclrida

silver_dreams · Elder Than Dirt Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 5102

:huh:

obviously you've never read a Mary-Sue fic.

or perhaps even *gasp* you're writing one and don't even know it! [/sarcasm]

and of course it's not life-threatening, but it is annoying.

read a few hundred mainstream anime self-insertion fanfiction and you'll see what i mean.

fallenangel · Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 5:45 pm Post subject:

[quote]Well duh, characters can't be perfect.[/quote]

Yes they can, if an author so foolishly writes them that way.

[quote]They never are perfect.[/quote]

Again, they are if an author writes them as being perfect. In an author's mind they either don't realize they're perfect (ie [i]they[/i] know the flaws but fail to communicate them in the story) or don't care and [i]want[/i] their character to be perfect.

[quote]So why are you making a big deal about it? [/quote]

Because it's horrid writing, and every mary sue author has to learn at some point. A mary sue is not a good character and ruins a story. Period.

[quote]I see nothing about it that can be so life threatening.[/quote]

It's threatening to a beginning author, especially if no one teaches them about a well rounded character. Somewhere they have to be taught about giving a character depth instead of a predictable superperson who can do anything and has no flaws whatsoever.

I would imagine, since you don't see the problem, you are either a Mary Sue author yourself and/or not a discriminating reader who doesn't mind deep as a puddle characters as long as they're cute or likeable or "bishie" or feature your favorite character in the story.

By the way, perfectly good characters have a tendency to turn into mary sues in fanfiction as well, especially if an author has an unhealthy attachment to them. They ignore any flaws and write the character as some alternate universe version that can do no wrong.
_________________
"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

silver_dreams · Elder Than Dirt Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 5102

Once again, i completely agree.

dolphinprincess · Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:07 pm Post subject:

Actually, I don't write stories often, and even if i did, none of my characters would be perfect. In fact, I have 12 oc characters, and they all have flaws. E.g. One's a total pervert, and another has a short temper. That's not being perfect. That's normal.
_________________
It took me about ten minutes to defeat Giga Bowser, Ganondorf, and Mewtwo from Super Smash Brothers Melee using Peach.
How long did it take my brother to defeat those characters using Yoshi? Two minutes.
I like to obsess over stuff. Here are all the things I'm obsessing over:
Song: Seize the Day by Default
Anime: D.Gray Man
Anime character(s): Kanda
Video Game: Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Video Game character: Wolf O-Donnell from Star Fox Assault
OC: Ray Eclrida, copyright of me (duh!)
OC Quote: "No, he just keeps getting beaten in the head with his own stupidity."-Ray Eclrida

silver_dreams · Elder Than Dirt Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 5102

slightly typical flaws, but better than Mary-Sue's...

After all, no one wants to read about an ass-kicking girl who never loses and always gets the hot guy with no problems, or a perfect hero that always wins...

dolphinprincess · Posted: Sat Nov 06, 2004 6:32 pm Post subject:

Right, nobody likes them. But I have one question. What do you maen by Mary-Sue?
_________________
It took me about ten minutes to defeat Giga Bowser, Ganondorf, and Mewtwo from Super Smash Brothers Melee using Peach.
How long did it take my brother to defeat those characters using Yoshi? Two minutes.
I like to obsess over stuff. Here are all the things I'm obsessing over:
Song: Seize the Day by Default
Anime: D.Gray Man
Anime character(s): Kanda
Video Game: Super Smash Brothers Brawl
Video Game character: Wolf O-Donnell from Star Fox Assault
OC: Ray Eclrida, copyright of me (duh!)
OC Quote: "No, he just keeps getting beaten in the head with his own stupidity."-Ray Eclrida

silver_dreams · Elder Than Dirt Joined: 05 Feb 2004 Posts: 5102

[quote="dolphinprincess (Megan Fahrensch"] Right, nobody likes them. But I have one question. What do you maen by Mary-Sue? [/quote]
Mary-Sue= perfect character that has virtually no flaws and is often the author as a character with every single problem erased and tons of improvements made.