Wiccans

Lexar · Forum Stalker Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 1129

I'll betcha these people who are so serious about wicca as a religion are also participating with christmas. And that just illustrates how seriously I take them. Maybe a little an out of the blue comment, but I suddenly thought of this.

fallenangel · Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 5:40 pm Post subject:

Just because you participate in Christmas doesn't mean you're Christian or believe in the "true meaning". A lot of people celebrate it for their own reasons, including me.
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Lexar · Forum Stalker Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 1129

Muslims don't celebrate christmas. jews don't celebrate christmas, hindus don't celebrate christmas, buddists don't celebrate christmas. But everyone has holidays on christmas, so it's convenient to celebrate at christmas, I'll give you that.

Raymei · Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:53 pm Post subject:

oops o.o wrong Lexar, Buddists *do* indeed celebrate Chrsitmas ^^ sorry bud.

A lot of people who aren't Christians participate in the holiday in America ^^ adopting it more as a national holiday instead of a religious one.

In Japan, most don't even know it's supposed to be a religeous holiday ^^ Shinto, Buddist, etc alike celebrate it nation-wide simply as a nice holiday (except in japan, it's mostly a lover's thing instead of a family thing)

Personally, I'm agnostic. I believe Jesus existed, but I don't believe he's the son of god (especially since they're always pushing that we're ALL "god's children")

But I still celebrate the holiday because it's a nice holiday ^^ I dont' see anything wrong with people from any religeon participating in another's holiday

KFelidae · Still very bored Joined: 19 May 2004 Posts: 295

Except that if I were to don deer antlers and go dance about like a ninny, I'd have Wiccans beating the living shiznit outta me within minutes.

Guess it don't always work both ways. Anywho, I say Scandinavians should now celebrate Raiding Day!

. . .

Gimmie yer wallet.

-KF

Lexar · Forum Stalker Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 1129

In most of the non western world celebrations around christmas are largely based on the american media depiction of christmas, and I don't think celebrating on the day should be confused with actually celebrating it because of the day. It might be a small difference, but the underlying meaning is totally different. In japan christmas isn't even an official holiday, and for example the new year is a bigger event than christmas.

Now I've been reading and looking around a bit, and I couldn't find anything that said buddhists celebrate christmas, though I did find out in India christmas is being celebrated as some sort of reference to christ as a holy man, and although India is largely hindu, maybe a buddhists use a similar reasoning?

[quote]Personally, I'm agnostic. I believe Jesus existed, but I don't believe he's the son of god (especially since they're always pushing that we're ALL "god's children")

But I still celebrate the holiday because it's a nice holiday ^^ I dont' see anything wrong with people from any religeon participating in another's holiday[/quote]

I'm not saying it's wrong to celebrate a holiday (please don't put words in my mouth), and what exactly does your view on christianity has to do exactly with all this?
I'm only saying that wiccans want so terribly to be recognised as a religion, but fail miserably because it's convenient to them to get presents from mommy and daddy.

Raymei · Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:09 am Post subject:

the buddist thing comes from them being allowed to celebrate any holiday with their family and friends
Not saying they are participating in celebrating Christ's birth (frankly, not many do these days lol)

And I wasn't trying to imply you thought that celebrating it was wrong ^^ I was just throwing my opinion on the matter up

But as far as the wiccan thing goes, no no I totally know where you're coming from ^^ lol

fallenangel · Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 10:43 am Post subject:

[quote]because it's convenient to them to get presents from mommy and daddy.[/quote]

I'm not even Wiccan (Hello, Raymei, my agnostic sister...), and it is convenient. Nothin' wrong with getting people presents. It's fun.
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"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

Raymei · Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 12:13 pm Post subject:

I hear that ^^

lol Everytime I hear the word "agnostic" I think of that cellphone commercial jingle "It doesn't matter if you're agnostic and you don't know what to do" Laughing

lol

In the words of my friend Brian, "Merry Christmas, bitches!"

DragonicFlames · Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 3:21 pm Post subject:

[quote]I'll betcha these people who are so serious about wicca as a religion are also participating with christmas. And that just illustrates how seriously I take them. Maybe a little an out of the blue comment, but I suddenly thought of this. [/quote]

No, we don't participate in "christmas" for we do not believe in "Christ the Savior". Some Christain Wiccans may do this, but for the rest of us no we do not. Christmas comes from the wiccan holiday of Candlemas, which was used to get wiccans into the christina livestock.

[quote]I'm only saying that wiccans want so terribly to be recognised as a religion, but fail miserably because it's convenient to them to get presents from mommy and daddy.[/quote]

errr.. You must be mistaking us for a bunch of pushovers. We have SOLICE and YULE presents, yes, but Not Christmas presents.

As for the whole "terribly to be recognized as a religon" WTF! We already are. NEW AGE does that not ring a bell? Witchcraft, Paganism, Shamanism, Wicca, and other sorts of Magic uses have been through out the ages. The new age wave movement is what has brought wicca too the light, for all to see.

Forth more, For those who do celebrate it, its probably because their families are christian and they HAVE to celebrate it. Being an "In the closet" and "solitary" witch is enough trouble as it is when you are living with family members who are christians. Just because we get some presents from christians, doesn't mean we are going to bend over back ward and become christians ourselves. In fact most of the newer wiccans were Christian before they became wiccans, thus seeing the true light of the whole pushy religion of christianity (or atleast the southern hospitaility of it).

Personally, Lexar, I am not trying to yell at you or trying to beat you into a pulp, (which probably wouldn't happen anyway) it's the fact that you insulting a lot of wiccans who are on the site, who don't even do Candlemas or Yule or Solice presents in the first place.

Winter time, for us Wiccans, are the birthing of the Lord of the Sun and the ending of the Crone's time. This is why spring is such a festive place for us, for the Lord of the Sun has grown into a child and the Lady of the Moon is also a child and the young love is spouting forth with the new plants, giving life and being happy.

To accuse of us, "christmasing" , is like getting kicked in the balls (being bult), because you are what you are. It's unfair and unrightous. Maybe you should look up some infomation on the Wiccans and our religion before you accuse us of something we don't do.

Like the christians might I add, who have accused witches for years of being "satanists" when we don't even believe in "Satan".
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Lexar · Forum Stalker Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 1129

[quote]As for the whole "terribly to be recognized as a religon" WTF! We already are. NEW AGE does that not ring a bell? Witchcraft, Paganism, Shamanism, Wicca, and other sorts of Magic uses have been through out the ages. The new age wave movement is what has brought wicca too the light, for all to see. [/quote]

I hope you are joking, because if you're not, I laugh at you. What do you possibly know about the ages? Nobody knows exactly what druids and shamans many hundreds of years ago did, because it's not written down, as those practices are from prehistoric tribes. Everything you think you know about this 'wicca' is just interpretation of some people who write fantasy books or something. You might think that applies to other religions too, but you'd be very sorrily mistaken.

[quote]Christmas comes from the wiccan holiday of Candlemas, which was used to get wiccans into the christina livestock.[/quote]

Yeah you just keep thinking that, and maybe you'll believe it too. Wiccans are something of this century, don't identify yourself with 'witches' from the medieval european ages, as they are nothing more than plague infested crazy people who were usually rejects from society because of them being born with mongoloide tendencies. generally people think the witch huntings were a bad thing nowadays, but keep in mind there is a reason why so many people hated them, and that's not just superstition. All the sick people and moronic people ended up living away from the community and lived as animals outside of urbanised places. In fact the only wiccans I've ever heard of are from the middle class north american origin and have absolutely nothing to do with what they claim to be the origins of wicca, except for that they like to be different from the rest of the group. A movement made completely out of highschool girls that are into lotr, buffy and harry potter does not make a religion, no matter how serious they take it.

Oh and as the name implies, christmas is about the birth of christ (originally), santa claus and the whole present giving thing is based on a turkish christian saint (st nicolas for those interested), who gave presents to children on his birthday.

DragonicFlames · Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject:

Lexar, It is obvious you are a stranger to wicca.

I knew that thing about Candlemas/Christmas would come up. Orginally it was called "The Birth of Christ Feast Day" until they changed it in some odd year of the oldern days to Christmas.

BTW, Not all of us witches are wiccans, as I said PAGAN.. and other kinds of witchcraft aspects do exist. And I am sorry you don't think it's been around for ages and ages, but it older than Christianity, since it has been dated back to the stone age, when they did rituals to have a great hunt and feast during the havest times.

But I shalt agrue with you no more, since your views have been tainted, obviously.
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Lexar · Forum Stalker Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 1129

The word christmas is from the christ mass, the ritual of reverence to the christ in the catholic church, and it is originally from latin, as most terminology in the church is from latin, since in the middle ages and even today, it is the official language of the church.

As for the origins of wicca, let me tell you, as a student of archaeology, I am very certain that everything you think you know about the prehistory and the great hunting and feasting festivities they had, is utter and unshamed speculation. There is NO evidence whatsoever. Sure there are bound to be festivities, that much is obvious, but keep in mind these are prehistoric tribes. The word itself already says it, there is NO written evidence, or account of these things. Of course there were religions before christianity, I am in fact insulted that you insinuate that I think otherwise, but I think you have to understand that not even the world's leading scientists have the faintest idea of what kind of religious system prehistoric tribes had, so whatever you claim to know, I laugh at. Besides you have to be more specific with exactly what tribes or culture you mean when you say 'they' had feasts during harvest seasons and stuff.

Flareita, it is obvious you are a stranger to history and society

ragingflea002 · Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:10 pm Post subject:

Christmas is now obsolete. For those who believe in Jesus and God, it's a religious celebration, but it's really one thing:
Commercial.
And to DraconicFlare...
Wicca is a 20th century religion, if a religion at all. I regard it as a cult. There are no apparent reasons for its establishment. Lexar has certainly got the facts right. Witchcraft and Wicca are two VERY different things, by the way.
Now, I want to ask you something. You recently reffered to yourself as a "witch", yet in the beginning of this thread, you reffered to yourself as a wiccan by saying that "we do not celebrate Christmas" and giving us a phony definition of the word.
Actually, if it is a definition by Wicca standards...it's to try and create a diverse line of scrimmage between Wicca and other religions.
I say it's a cult. There is no actual reason for it's establishment other than "it seems cool".
Common comeback is: Christianity is based on a freakin book.
The book contains historical facts, although I regard the "Bible Code" to be pure imagination. There are accounts that cannot be verified because of lack of evidence, but the accounts that are able to be verified are, guess what, fact. A foundation for belief right there.
I like archaeology, although Lex has made it rather interesting for me to want to pursue it as a career. It lets us know about us. Fun, to be sure.
But Wicca was never documented in the 16-19th centuries. Witchcraft was, but not Wicca. I said there is a difference.
Witchcraft trials were rigged anyway. European "witches" and "wizards" are not likely to be Harry Potter.
Alchemy did occur, and the Alchemist in Harry Potter did exist, his name escapes me, but I believe him to have been a quack.
If you're a witch, by all means, kill me right now. If you're a Wiccan, you possess no ability to do any such thing.
In the Stone Age....
They believed fire was magic. Lightning was magic. Of course they feasted if they thought it was magic, they felt as though they had to appease someone, or thing, not knowing what, I assume. It's a bad reference to the stone age. If you knew about it, you'd be dead.
Again, you refer to wicca and witchcraft as a whole.
Do you even know the difference between the two?
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Not all who wander are lost.
"The separation between spirit and logic is reasonable because spirit is defined by faith and logic forces others to think about what they have faith in."

fallenangel · Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:15 pm Post subject:

Good to see the wicca debate is still alive and kicking.

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"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

Lexar · Forum Stalker Joined: 02 Mar 2004 Posts: 1129

*points at above post trembling with fear*

.... s.. s.. SPAM!!!

*hides*

(joke)

fallenangel · Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:36 pm Post subject:

Ha ha ha ha ha

(fake laughter)

In case my meaning was lost in the supposedly spamful comment, "jesus christ, did you not get enough Wicca debate in the other thread?"

Guess you have to have something to bitch about, but it just seems there has to be a better subject, since as you said yourself, there's no proof for this particular one. But until Silver Ravenwolf starts being quoted as a reliable source, have at it. Rolling eyes

_________________
"I care about people as much as I care about lawn furniture" - Dexter/Michael C. Hall

ragingflea002 · Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2004 7:41 pm Post subject:

Thank you for your permission Fallen.

_________________
Not all who wander are lost.
"The separation between spirit and logic is reasonable because spirit is defined by faith and logic forces others to think about what they have faith in."

KFelidae · Still very bored Joined: 19 May 2004 Posts: 295

*is enjoying the whole thread, and listening eagerly for new posts...*

XD

-KF